Walking in Emmental near Show Dairy in Affoltern

Walking in Emmental near Show Dairy in Affoltern

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maggiehorswell
maggiehorswell
318 posts
top member
Feb 25, 2016 - 3:29 PM

Hi everyone

I think Slowpoke may know the answer to this one as he knows the area well.

A few years ago we visited the Emmental Show Dairy in Affoltern. After the tour and lunch it was too early to simply get bus etc. back to Thun and the weather was fine so we decided to take a walk. We enjoyed an easy wanderweg which took us past fields of barley and pretty country views, ending up on a road where there was a bus stop. The bus wasn't due for nearly an hour so we decided to walk along the road and came to a railway station. We caught a train from there. The trouble is I can't remember the actual name of the station! I didn't keep such a detailed record of where we'd been and what we did in those days! Do you have any idea where that station might have been or the bus route we may have been on? We were thinking we might repeat the trip this summer!

We know how to reach the Show Dairy - that's not a problem. We just remember it was a nice easy relaxing stroll - ideal for us old folk!

Best wishes

Maggie

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 26, 2016 - 1:21 AM in reply to maggiehorswell

Hi Maggie-

<<"We enjoyed an easy wanderweg which took us past fields of barley and pretty country views, ending up on a road where there was a bus stop. The bus wasn't due for nearly an hour so we decided to walk along the road and came to a railway station. We caught a train from there.">>

That requires some thought and study. Happily, in the Emmental, there are quite a few places that might match your description.

In the meantime - check this link and th related ones mentioned within such as page 1.

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/langnau-in-may/page/2

More later.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Feb 26, 2016 - 1:25 AM by Slowpoke
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 26, 2016 - 10:46 PM in reply to maggiehorswell

Hi Maggie-

Don't have answers yet.

I don't know how to find an online map that shows the Wanderwege.

I'll see if I can get a usably detailed scan of a Wanderkarte for the region posted within the size limitations of the forum for image files. Perhaps it will help you find the Wanderweg you seek.

That will be later, in another post

The attached link gives the most detailed map that I know of of he region near the Schaukaserei. Trails are clearly visible, and the nearest train line is the one to the east which used to run northward from Ramsei to Sumiswald to Affoltern-Weir and on to Huttwil. It shows on the map. Some of the trails shown are Wanderwege.

map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=swisstopo&lang=e n&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo .pixelkarte-farbe&layers=ch.swisst opo.swissimage-product&X=212750.00&Y= 622178.00&zoom=9&layer s_visibility=false

However, the circular rail route around the Napf has been broken, with an "ersatz Bus " filling the gap. Last summer the train stopped at Sumiswald, and the bus picked up. Until that time, for several years it made it as far as Weir (just down the hill from Affoltern.

Another nearby train connection is to the south at Hasle- Rüegsau. That line goes to Burgdorf. Station Hasle- Rüegsau is about a 9 km walk from Affoltern, so I suspect that it may not have been the route you took.

Hope this helps.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Feb 26, 2016 - 10:58 PM by Slowpoke
maggiehorswell
maggiehorswell
318 posts
top member
Feb 27, 2016 - 12:38 AM in reply to Slowpoke

Thanks for the help, Slowpoke.

I have looked at your map and think I may have worked out the way we went, though could be wrong as I am not brilliant with maps! We went south from the Dairy so I think we must have gone down a path through Tannli, Wyden, Buechfeld, Hegen, Wyclachen till we came to a minor road. Then turned east and reached main road which is where we soon found a bus stop as I said. Then we walked on south and found train station at Summiswald. That would be between 4 and 5 km I think which would be about right.

If we do decide to re-visit Affoltern this year we nay well try to retrace our walk so I will let you know later in the year if I am right!

Thanks again

Maggie

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 27, 2016 - 12:43 AM in reply to maggiehorswell

Hi Maggie-good to see some progress,

Did you use a yellow signed Wanderweg as stated earlier?

About how long did you walk...hours or kms?

You note 4-5 km, which s would be a couple of hours at a very leisurely pace.

the route you have described may have a steep downhil of a couple of hundred meters near Sumiswald.

I'll look further....not sure you have it yet.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Feb 27, 2016 - 12:52 AM by Slowpoke
maggiehorswell
maggiehorswell
318 posts
top member
Feb 27, 2016 - 2:50 AM in reply to Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke

Yes we followed a wanderweg yellow sign and about 2 hours leisurely walk would be about right for time and distance. I took a few photos which I will look for and resize tomorrow but they probably won't shed much light! on it! It's not vital to find the exact route as I am sure we would find it on the ground as it were if we set off from Affoltern along a marked route in a southerly direction! We could have turned east earlier and come to the road earlier I guess. It's some years ago now and we have done so many walks since then I can't remember it exactly!

Thanks for trying but don't worry if you can't figure it out!

Maggie

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 27, 2016 - 8:39 AM in reply to maggiehorswell

Hi Maggie-

I think I found it on a Wanderweg Map.

Don't worry about sending photos until you see the scan(s) I'm going to send you.

Slowpoke

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 28, 2016 - 9:59 AM in reply to maggiehorswell

Hi Maggie-

I've spent some time with maps and bus/train schedules of various vintages.

I have attached a couple of maps that are as large as the forum rules permit, at as high a resolution as possible.

They are Map # 2, and Map # 3. (Map #1 was too big to upload.)

They are scanned from Wanderkarte # 234T Willlisau, 1:50,000. 2009 edition. I marked them up some.

Die Wanderwege are shown as red lines.

Map #2 shows the region from Affoltern to Sumiswald and your possible hike route along a Wanderweg, as you described. Some other Wanderwege are shown, too. I have not been on that route, but have considered walking it. The marks on Map # 3 clarify where I have walked. I have been on the road and upper trails from point # 3 toward point #5 and beyond, as well as down the road at point #1.

Red dots along the road/rail line show bus stops. The Wanderkarten all show bus stops that way.

For fine detail, you have to go to the Swisstopo map that I linked you to before. A 1:50,000 map cannot show as much detail as that SwissTopo map. For example, the two-house village of Wydachen (not Wyclachen) only shows on the Swisstopo map, but I have put a red dot on the scans to show where it is.

Also, you then can discern Hegenegg, Oberhegen and Unterhegen.

Map #3 shows more detail than map #2 and has some numbers and other marks.

Attached image "Balloon..." was taken from location # 3, looking over Sumiswald

Attached Trachselwald Panorama was taken from the spot marked "Panorama" exactly at the red dot close to the "G" in "Gammenthal." It is just at the point where the road emerges from the woods.

The dark arrow #1 shows a scenic but rather steep section of road overlooking Sumiswald and Trachselwald in the distance.

#2 marks a schoolhouse called the Lueg Schulhaus. It has large windows with a view quite similar to the panorama photo. The children have great views, and the design shows how much the Swiss appreciate their Alpine and Emmental landscape.

#4 marks Schloss Trachselwald

#5 marks a ridge road that is a continuation of the road from Affoltern, also with nice views.

Here is the dilemma.

Sometime after 2002, the rail service north of Sumiswald to Affoltern Weier was discontinued, and the bus service put in place from Sumiswald to Affoltern-Weir train station, thence to Affoltern and on to Huttwil. The tracks are still there, used for freight trains.

The other bus line near the Schaukäserei goes from Affoltern to Hasle-Rüegsau station, to the south and west., along the yellow road due west of the Schaukäserei. You would not have crossed it if you went south from Affoltern.. The bus stops a few yards down the road from the Schaukäserei, and continues onward toward Haüsernmoos and Dürrenroth and Huttwil after coming up from Rüegsau. (I may not have the exact routes precisely correct around Affoltern, since they changed them a bit once the rail service to Affoltern Weir was eliminated.)

Study of the contours on maps 2 and 3 shows that. if you walked the Wanderweg that you proposed, and then came eastward to the bus route between Sumiswald and Weir, you would have made a steep descent of 136 meters from 816 to 680 meters, more or less. Gammenthal is in a valley. If you contiinued along the bus route to the south , you would then have had a climb back up to Sumiswald (elevation 700 meters), along a rather narrow and twisty road, then down again to the station Sumiswald-Grünen at 662 meters.

If you did not follow the bus route, you could have stayed in the valley, at nominal 660-680 meters, walked around the hill where the train tracks enter a tunnel, and worked your way to Sumiswald- Grünen Station via Oberfürten.

It is possible, depending on when you made the walk, that you caught a train at Affoltern Weir. Then, you would have headed East before point #3 marked on the map (perhaps at Wyden or Bühlfeld) , and walked the bus route northwards. You could only have caught a train from Affoltern-Weir before they discontinued train service ( between 2002 and 2009 sometime.) But, then , there was probably (not certainly) no bus service along that stretch of road south of Weier, since the trains were still running.

So, none of the options fit exactly with your description. The best fit is with a walk to Sumiswald-Grünen train station. However, if you recall the steep descent, or whether or not you went through Sumiswald, that helps understand what you did.

If, indeed , you go there again. please arrange for perfect weather and take in the views from above Gammenthal toward Trachselwald and Sumiswald.

That is as far as I can get with what I have from you, plus my knowledge of the region and the Wanderweg maps.

After I think about it some more, or have other comments from you, perhaps the route will become clearer.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Feb 28, 2016 - 10:04 AM by Slowpoke
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Arno
Arno
7707 posts
expert &
moderator
Feb 28, 2016 - 11:16 AM in reply to Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke,

If map #1 is an image you could try www.picresize.com or www.kraken.io (click to the free try) to shrink it. In most cases that will do the trick.

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 28, 2016 - 2:43 PM in reply to Arno

<<"If map #1 is an image you could try www.picresize.com or www.kraken.io (click to the free try) to shrink it. In most cases that will do the trick.">>

Hi Arno-

Thanks.

I'll take a look.

However, I do my work in Adobe Photoshop, and have full control over the change in physical size (including cropping and adding text, lines, arrows, etc.) and resolution (pixel count) as well as bit depth of any image (except, I do not do 3D.)

So, I am able to resample and resize any image file to just under 1MB *.JPG files.

In the case of maps, the issue is not one of subtle esthetic qualities. It is keeping the fine print legible. Map #1 covers too large an area surrounding Affoltern in all directions, so that when it is compressed to fit 1MB, village names are no longer legible. I debated about posting it,because the trail network shows in red, but, based on Maggie's comments, I did not feel that it was needed.

The Swisstopo map serves the same purpose, mostly better than a scan of a printed map....it can be enlarged to very fine detail, or compressed to cover a large area. The only problem is, as far as I have been able to learn, it cannot show die Wanderwege (and, I guess, the bus stops). If it could, then I would use screen grabs and be sure of up to date information.

Mapsearch .CH, of course, does show bus stops, but, once again, as far as I know, does not show die Wanderwege..

Die Wanderkarten do also show scenic look-out points (open red circles) such as the one near Schloss Trachselwald.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Feb 28, 2016 - 2:44 PM by Slowpoke
Arno
Arno
7707 posts
expert &
moderator
Feb 28, 2016 - 4:06 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke,

I see your point. It's worth a try to use Photoshop to shrink the map to the minimum that's still readable. Then try the second website I mentioned to shrink the file size even further. It does not change dimensions and the quality of the resulting image is still pretty good, at least to my experience. In most cases I can't see the difference even if I used the "lossy " option. One of things this tool does, I think, is remove hidden data in the file, like EXIF information.

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 28, 2016 - 4:28 PM in reply to Arno

I'll take a look.

<<"It does not change dimensions and the quality of the resulting image is still pretty good, at least to my experience. In most cases I can't see the difference even if I used the "lossy " option. One of things this tool does, I think, is remove hidden data in the file, like EXIF information.">>

The simplest way to say it is that when you compress an image you must lose information after some point, when all the blank spaces and other identifiable pixel sequences have been compressed by a lossless algorithm. A certain degree of compression can be achieved in lossless fashion. After lossless compression is "used up" so to speak, then lossy schemes such as the JPEG scheme start to destroy data. If you start with enough, and don't compress it too much, then yu will not notice it on the relative insensitive computer monitor. If you go to larger and larger (in the general sense) images, and keep squeezing them into a 1 MB *.jpg file, eventually you begin to lose detail.

To amplify on this concept - a uniform single color image compresses (using identical compression algorithms) to a much smaller (MB) file than an identically sized ( pixels) image that contains lots of information....such as detailed fine features and text.

The files i am working with can be too large to compress and maintain small print TEXT legiblity, no matter what algorithm is used. Photographic images can tolerate much more compression and still look good.

The process you describe is a bit ambiguous, because the word "dimensions' has several meanings in image editing. If i assume that you mean centimeter or inch dimensions are unchanged, then the number of pixels spread out over the same total square centimeters of area (hence resolution) must be reduced to accomplish that result.

If you start with a 240 pixel per inch resolution, and drop it to 150 ppi at the same centimeter dimensions, you will not see the effect on your screen, except possibly for fine print. If you start with a much bigger file and need to drop it to - say 60 ppi -to make it fit the limits, you destroy detail.

More specifically , if you compress a 30 cm by 30 cm 400 ppi scanned image (127.7 MB at 16 bit pixel depth) to a generally readable but marginal to unacceptable on fine print 30 by 30 cm at 120 ppi at 8 bit pixel depth (for conversion to JPG) , in order to get to an allowable , uploadable size somewhere near 5.7 MB (before compression by the lossy JPEG algorithm), you must destroy 22.3 million pixels and recreate just approx 2 million and recreate them in some kind of merged form.

There are only some many ways that you can do that. There are only so many things you can do to a bit-mapped image to make it smaller, and how you shrink it can affect the quality of the final result. At some point in the process you must merge pixels. Adobe has the best image manipulation algorithms for such a transformation on the market ( at least at not irrational and more or less affordable prices) for serious amateurs and the average professional.

They include optionally 4 or 5 algorithms for the data resampling. And, I have a half dozen sharpening routines available to fine tune the result if needed.

I looked at pic resize and it is primitive in its capabilities.

I'll check the other one.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Feb 28, 2016 - 5:12 PM by Slowpoke
maggiehorswell
maggiehorswell
318 posts
top member
Feb 28, 2016 - 5:44 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Hi again Slowpoke

I really appreciate all your work trying to solve my riddle!

I think we may just play it by ear and instinct if we try it again. It was 2009 when we went last so train may have still been operational on that route. Certainly we caught one somewhere to complete our trip. Can't really remember enough details to help you solve it so please don't feel obliged to continue.

I am attaching some pictures I took, quite proud of the bird!

Best wishes

Maggie

Please login to see the attached documents
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 28, 2016 - 6:16 PM in reply to maggiehorswell

OK-

The maps i attached should give you some good ideas for getting to Sumiswald, if that is where you choose to go.

I just checked and the same two bus services are running in June. they are - Hasle to Affoltern to Affoltern Weir, and and Sumiswald Grünen directly north via gammentahl to Affoltern -Weir., and the trains go as far north as Sumiswald Grünen.

The white church in #...18 is very characteristic of the area. At first, I thought it was in Dürrrenroth, (that is definitely not on your possible routes) but I don't recall the cemetery. It might be visible on Google maps or Swiss topo.

In fact, it is the church in Affoltern, taken from the Schaukäserei or nearby.

In any case, have a great trip if you go.

The thread I mentioned earlier about langnau describes some other walks based at Affoltern; I stay there regularly.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Feb 28, 2016 - 6:27 PM by Slowpoke
maggiehorswell
maggiehorswell
318 posts
top member
Feb 28, 2016 - 8:11 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Thanks Slowpoke,

I shall have my laptop with me in Switzerland so I will be able to refer back to this thread and your other one when I need to.

Maggie

Last modified on Feb 28, 2016 - 8:11 PM by maggiehorswell
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
2645 posts
expert
Feb 28, 2016 - 8:41 PM in reply to maggiehorswell

It might be more conveniet,, although an added cost, to pick up Wanderkarte 233T Solothurn and 234T Willisau, if you would like to explore that area. Lots of good walks.

Slowpoke

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