Golden Pass panoramic train- some discontinued?

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    10 September 2018 at 12:51:49 #818297

    This post is only about the panoramic trains called the Goldenpass line. Not any of the other panoramic trains.

    I am still researching, but I wanted to put up something quickly. If you are planning to or already have seat reservations on a “goldenpass” train, make sure the seats you are reserving actually exist. We just returned from Switzerland and we were supposed to have reservation on a Panoramic Train on September 7, 2018 from Interlaken to Luzern. When we could not find the coach that our seats were supposed to be in, we asked the conductor and were told “that train has been discontinued” and “to just take any seat”. His face and tone showed the frustration of having had to answer the question many times already.

    It seems that several of the trains shown on the Goldenpass web site and in brochures have been discontinued. I found some information for section we traveled that this happened in very early September 2018.

    I just checked the reservation website and found they are still selling reservations for Panoramic trains and seats that no longer exist. Also, when I checked, I found many seats showed already being reserved for the same week I am writing this(second week of September 2018)..

    My suggestion is, unless you can be absolutely certain the section you will travel is still a panoramic train, just buy your ticket(s) the day you travel and not to reserve unless it is a very popular day and time.

    The trip itself is beautiful and well worth taking, but unless you really need first class, the second class seats have the same view as first class.

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    10 September 2018 at 14:51:40 #895943

    Hi jmre2 and welcome to MySwissAlps

    Curious, I know that the 1st class panoramic coaches with the VIP seats are out of operation for renovations but there should still be the normal panoramic coaches (1st and 2nd class) as well as the Belle Epoque classic panoramic trains as well.

    I wonder if there is a translation issue on the staff’s side when saying discontinued.

    So I take it you were on a regional train (non-panoramic)? They certainly shouldn’t be reserving you seats on a panoramic train and then not refunding you if you are on a regional train. Regional trains do run on this route normally as well.

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    10 September 2018 at 15:58:37 #895944

    Thanks for the reply. This is what I got from them after several back and forth emails;

    Hello,

    The booking system was temporarily out of order. It’s fixed again and people can make bookings again. There’s the button “book now”. But we agree with you that the picture on top with the girl and the two panoramic trains is confusing.

    The Goldenpass Line is the brand name for the railway line between Montreux and Luzern. It doesn’t mean automatically that every train operating on the Goldenpass Line is a panoramic one. Sorry for this!

    Three different train companies are operating the trains on the different sections of the Goldenpass Line. From Montreux to Zweisimmen it is the “Montreux Oberland Bernois” train company, from Zweisimmen to Interlaken Ost it is the “bls” train company, and from Interlaken Ost to Luzern it is the “Zentralbahn” train company.

    Thank you and best regards,
    Renate

    Still the Goldenpass website is fairly misleading and the conductor at Interlaken definitely used the word discontinued when I showed him my Goldenpass printed reservation. I am new to this site and cannot make any changes for 22-23 hours, but I will update and update my post when I am able.

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    10 September 2018 at 16:06:52 #895945

    Thanks jmre 2,

    Yes, I think the train staff just erred using the word discontinued. The panoramic trains are not discontinued. Some are in for renovations currently but others are still running. Regional, non- panoramic trains also run on the “Golden Pass” route for sure – that is normal.

    On the timetable (http://www.myswissalps.com/ti metable) panoramic trains are denoted as MOB Panoramic – that information should be correct. It sounds like they had a booking error with their reservation system which is a one-off (hopefully!).

    We agree that reservations are typically not needed on this route, outside of perhaps July and August at the very least (and then just between Zweisimmen and Montreux where the panoramic trains run).

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    10 September 2018 at 23:49:30 #895946

    As I have posted on many threads in this forum, Interlaken – Luzern is not the true ‘Goldenpass’ and all the trains have the same type of accomodation. This is why the person you asked suggested you ‘take any seat’. They were not, I think, trying to be deliberately.

    On the Interlaken – Luzern route it is not worth reserving a seat as it gives you nothing extra to a normal journey. It is highly unliklely that a Swiss train will ever be completely full with no seats available.

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    10 September 2018 at 23:51:21 #895947

    Reference to the MOB trains is irrelevant here I think as the suggestion is this trip was only Interlaken – Luzern

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    10 September 2018 at 23:54:16 #895948

    Very interesting and somewhat amusing that an official response is similar to my standard text that I have created about this route and posted several times on this forum (repeated below) when the question of ‘Goldenpass’ on Interlaken – Luzern comes up.

    First of all, ignore the phrase GoldenPass in this instance [ie reference to Interlaken – Luzern].

    Current tourist branding can be confusing

    The Luzern – Interlaken railway is actually the Brunig Pass (the true Goldenpass is just the MOB railway Zweisimmen – Montreux).

    The Luzern – Meiringen – Interlaken line is the Brünig pass line operated by Zentralbahn (ZB), which dubs the regular trains “Luzern – Interlaken Express’. The trains were replaced by new ones a few years ago which all have large panoramic windows. Just take one of these trains which run every hour through the day.

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    11 September 2018 at 11:40:21 #895949

    Hello 1960man; This if from the original poster. I wish I had seen some of your posts before we planned our trip to Switzerland. What seems to me now is that their website and online brochures can be very misleading to someone without knowledge like you have. In our case we actually picked a later departure time to reserve what on the site seem to be a very limited number of 1st class seats. When I was looking at making reservations, all of the two passenger only seat configurations in first class already showed reserved on earlier trains. What I did not know then and do know now is that there are many more first class seats and second class seats available on the train than in their schematic for reservations and there is nothing special about the seats available for reservation. When it did come time for us to board, it made for some confusion and mild panic when we could not find the coach and seats as designated in our printed reservation (while dragging around our luggage). As I referred to original post, the conductor seemed slightly irritated and embarrassed to have to deal with confused tourists like us with seat reservation in hand, which he probably has to do dozens if not hundreds of times a day due to Gioldenpass reservations.

    I was hoping to edit or delete my original post, but cannot yet figure out how. So hopefully I can do some stepping back here. As you and other people have indicated; No the train have not been discontinued. However, as you indicate for the Luzern/Interlaken section, unless it is a very busy period there is no reason to waste the time and money on a reservation. The trip is great. The scenery is beautiful. The train is newer and comfortable, but not much different from most of the other IC and IR trains in Switzerland.

    In going over review sites about Golden pass lines and trains and other panoramic trains, it seems that there is a much greater amount of confusion from people (novices like us) trying to figure out what you are actually getting and using the Goldenpass website. A much greater amount than I found for other panoramic trains in Switzerland. In auditing we have the concept of an invisible hand. It is the idea when something seems weighted to one side or another for which there is no obvious reason, there usually is a behind the scenes factor pushing errors in one direction or another. Along with this concept is the concept that errors that are profitable take longer to correct than those that are unprofitable. In this case the invisible hand appears to be in plain sight–The Goldenpass web site and brochures.

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    11 September 2018 at 12:38:21 #895950

    For 1960man. I will try to do an attachment to this for you. Hopefully it opens up. You probably already know this, but just in case it will give you an idea of how a novice might think there is something special about the coaches and feel pressured to make a reservation. You seem to be someone in a better position than me to communicate to people about the rail system in Switzerland, so I thought you might find it interesting.

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    11 September 2018 at 14:56:28 #895951

    Hi jmre2,

    I can see where some confusion comes for travelers. Certainly they do like to have people reserve seats whenever possible (extra profit).

    We agree (and tell members on MySwissAlps) that reservations between Luzern and Interlaken are not needed – all the trains are the same “panoramic style” on that route (normally) and run frequently.

    I hope the rest of your trip went more smoothly!

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    12 September 2018 at 23:24:05 #895952

    Thanks very much for that – how horribly misleading. They use a graphic of an MOB panoramic coach but the Interlaken – Luzern trains are nothing like that!

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    13 September 2018 at 6:08:37 #895953

    I’m not sure I would view those carriage graphics as panoramic trains necessarily. It is still just a small info graphic. I wouldn’t make assumptions based on that as to what train I was traveling in.

    I consider the Luzern-Interlaken express to be almost panoramic in any case. Larger windows than average and the smaller windows placed in the joint between wall and ceiling.

    The trains running from Interlaken to Zweisimmen are definitely regular, regional trains.

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