Best rail pass for 16 days in Switzerland

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Lucas
Lucas
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Nov 18, 2017 - 6:48 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Oh yes, Once I got my permit card they gave me all the key information/secrets! :)

Yes, we all have the Halb-Abo here....we thought about getting the annual abonnement but it was something like 5000chf. :( Worth it in some cases I suppose - some Swiss commute daily between Bern or Basel or Zurich or Luzern etc and perhaps it could be worth it to them or others who travel frequently.

To try and put it everything a bit more succinctly....I think they charge those rates because they can. :)

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
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Nov 18, 2017 - 7:09 PM in reply to Lucas

<<"To try and put it everything a bit more succinctly....I think they charge those rates because they can. :)">>

I hear that they are working on a cable way for the journey, because they can't get anymore passengers into the trains, except during off-season. If they are making room for more passengers, I suspect you are right.

However, a different marketing approach might actually be more profitable, and involve less capital expenditure. Raise the prices gradually until the traffic falls off, then fine tune the prices by cutting back prices in slack times with various kinds of specials.

Or so I have heard from marketing "experts."

. ;-)

Slowpoke

rockoyster
rockoyster
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Nov 18, 2017 - 7:21 PM in reply to Slowpoke

An interesting discussion. Thanks for all that background Slowpoke.

I will take Lucas’ “because they can” theory as the most likely explanation.

Lucas
Lucas
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Nov 18, 2017 - 7:28 PM in reply to Slowpoke

I love good yield management. At my old job they recently started to lower prices at slow times (or more accurately raise prices at peak times). But again I think are too many people going to Jungfraujoch in the summer season for this to have any effect. There are no off times....and They just see $$$$ in their eyes over there. :)

rockoyster
rockoyster
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Nov 18, 2017 - 7:39 PM in reply to Lucas

One last question Lucas. With GA could you go to Jungfraujoch for free? GA does not appear as a discount option on SBB timetable so I assume you could just hop on and wave your card.

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
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Nov 18, 2017 - 8:39 PM in reply to rockoyster

G'Day Rockoyster -

<<"I will take Lucas’ “because they can” theory as the most likely explanation.">>

Of course. If they are out of capacity for a service, why would they lower costs?

(by the way, I'm sure it is not cheap to maintain those roadbeds and the rolling stock. What do you think?)

It's their job to make money for their shareholders. So, "can" is not without limits other in addition to the willingness of riders to pay.

However, to make it easier for you to understand my point buried in the lengthy comments -

the "can" is constrained by all of the factors I mentioned. If there were no constraints, they would do yield management as described by Lucas.

One tiny example -

The fare from Lauterbrunnen to Wengen could be a lot higher, and it would not impact travel volume.

If half the people going up to the Jungfrau cgo via Wengen, there are 500,ooo every year. They would pay more than the few CHF that that short leg costs. The price is held down by the Swiss government social policy of good, inexpensive public transport, and the political power of the residents of the canton and Gemeinde, in my opinion.

If capital is expensive, it is always good business to get the most return from invested capital as a first step, rather than simply pouring more capital into the business to expand capacity.

Slowpoke

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
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Nov 18, 2017 - 8:42 PM in reply to rockoyster

<<"One last question Lucas. With GA could you go to Jungfraujoch for free?

GA does not appear as a discount option on SBB timetable so I assume you

could just hop on and wave your card.">>

I'm betting that the everyday commuters from Zürich to Bern and back don't care all that much about the cost of the Jungfrau trip. I'll be interested to hear Lucas' answer, and I should wait for that, but my bet is that the GA holder pays something similar to the STP holder, or Halb-tax holder.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Nov 18, 2017 - 8:43 PM by Slowpoke
Lucas
Lucas
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Nov 19, 2017 - 8:26 AM in reply to Slowpoke

Its almost the same coverage as the Swiss Travel Pass - though it does give you 50% off Jungfraujoch and quite a few other Bergbahnen & Luftseilbahnen as well. Its not as expensive as I remember (3840chf) but I think it is fairly popular with most Swiss anyway - at least those without a car (which oddly enough a lot of Swiss have a car!)

I'd like to see the permit card/ID card act as a halb-abo honestly...everyone has one anyway...a little more gov't subsidy never hurt anyone ;). I guess that's my Canadian view. haha. We're a little more socialist than they are here!

Here's a link to the GA and the PDF "Geltungsberiech GA" gives you a map and list of companies that are covered 100% or 50%.

Last modified on Nov 19, 2017 - 8:28 AM by Lucas
rockoyster
rockoyster
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Nov 19, 2017 - 9:11 AM in reply to Lucas

Hi Lucas,

Well that's odd. I wonder how a Swiss GA holder buys a ticket to Jungfraujoch from the SBB website? I guess they have to fib and say they have a half-fare card.

Makes the rationale for a 25% discount on the Swiss Travel Pass even more illogical apart from your "because they can " theory.

And yes Slowpoke, I do agree "it is not cheap to maintain those roadbeds and the rolling stock".

But imagine how much money they would save if they only had to print one map which covered GA, Swiss Travel Pass and tourist and international flavours of half-fare card. 🤓

Apologies webjammer for hi-jacking your thread.

Last modified on Nov 19, 2017 - 9:12 AM by rockoyster
webjammer
webjammer
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Nov 19, 2017 - 9:27 AM in reply to rockoyster

No worries Rockoyster. I guess this is getting to be a good read 😊 please carry on. Always good to know about various dynamics of a different geography

rockoyster
rockoyster
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Nov 19, 2017 - 9:42 AM in reply to webjammer

"Always good to know about various dynamics of a different geography"

A Canadian, an American and an Australian walk into a Swiss bar ......

Where do you hail from webjammer?

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5259 posts
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Nov 19, 2017 - 9:52 AM in reply to rockoyster

<<"Well that's odd. I wonder how a Swiss GA holder buys a ticket to

Jungfraujoch from the SBB website? I guess they have to fib and say they

have a half-fare card.">>

I suppose you could try it out to get the facts? ;-)

Slowpoke

webjammer
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Nov 19, 2017 - 10:36 AM in reply to Slowpoke

Rockoyster I come from India 😊

Removed user
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Nov 19, 2017 - 10:43 AM in reply to rockoyster

>> I wonder how a Swiss GA holder buys a ticket to Jungfraujoch from the SBB website?

If you want to buy tickets for the Jungfraujoch online, you do so on the Jungfrau site!

www.jungfrau.ch/shop/e n/tickets/bergbahn/ang ebote/jungfraujoch-top-of-europe/jungfraujoch-ticket-anschlussticket-zum-ga-und-swisspass-ab-grindelwald-bis-wengen-neu

Alpenrose

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Nov 19, 2017 - 11:45 AM in reply to Slowpoke

>> I hear that they are working on a cable way for the journey

Yes, it's been quite controversial it seems. Here is an article that covers some of the issues that have delayed its construction. I remember seeing V-Bahn ads inside the trains in the Jungfrau Region last year, with the slogan "Wir brauchen die V-Bahn" ("We need the V-Bahn"), and wondered what it was all about.

www.swissinfo.ch/eng/h igh-alpine-tensionsadd-the-underlineupgrade-or-bust--does-mountain-development-benefit-all-/41238918

This is a good description of what is planned:

www.maennlichen.ch/en/ v-cableway.html

There's also some discussion on TripAdvisor, including some contributions from a Wengen local.

tinyurl.com/y8z96o33

I gather there are still several outstanding objections that will delay resolution of the situation (possibly for several more years), although one objector (a Kleine Scheidegg hotel proprietor) has recently come to an agreement with the Jungfraubahn and withdrawn his objection.

Alpenrose

Last modified on Nov 19, 2017 - 11:48 AM by Removed user
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
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Nov 19, 2017 - 2:34 PM in reply to Removed user

<<"although one objector (a Kleine Scheidegg hotel proprietor) has recently

come to an agreement with the Jungfraubahn and withdrawn his objection.">>

An example of the need for consensus in Swiss governance. The cableway presumably would bypass the KS hotel(s)

Slowpoke

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Nov 20, 2017 - 4:06 AM in reply to Slowpoke

>> The cableway presumably would bypass the KS hotel(s)

Yes, that was one of the reasons behind the objections of the Kleine Scheidegg hotel proprietor - tourists being whisked to and from the Jungfraujoch without setting foot (and spending money) in Kleine Scheidegg.

The Jungfraubahn made at least 2 (probably more) concessions to secure his agreement to the project:

  • That the current frequency of trains to Kleine Scheidegg would be maintained after the V-Bahn comes into operation
  • That the annual Snowpenair Music Festival at Kleine Scheidegg, which apparently attracts about 10,000 people, would be discontinued, as the noise has an adverse affect on the amenity for guests staying at the Hotel Bellevue des Alpes. The last Snowpenair Festival is expected to be held in 2020.

The teepee and Valser tent will disappear and be replaced by other services.

I believe there are still three objections outstanding:

  • The landowner who owns the land needed for construction of the valley stations of the V-Bahn and new Grindelwald-Männlichen gondola. He will apparently only agree to sell the land if just the Grindelwald-Männlichen gondola, and not the V-Bahn, is built.
  • Two objections from organisations concerned with protection of the environment. From what I have read, some of the environmental concerns have apparently been addressed and agreed, such as lower mast heights, better masking of an ugly tunnel, and something to do with minimising obstruction of the view of the Eiger North Face. It seems they might be close to withdrawing their objections.

Alpenrose

Last modified on Nov 20, 2017 - 4:09 AM by Removed user
rockoyster
rockoyster
4074 posts
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Nov 20, 2017 - 4:27 AM in reply to Removed user

Very interesting.

Meanwhile in Hobart Tasmania, proposals for a cable car to the top of Mt Wellington have been popping up and being kicked into touch for 100 years. The latest mtwellingtoncablecar.c om has just passed a major legislative hurdle but the environmentalists and "not-in-my-back-yard" brigades are massing in opposition.

Last modified on Nov 20, 2017 - 4:29 AM by rockoyster
Removed user
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Nov 20, 2017 - 4:31 AM in reply to rockoyster

Yes, I've been reading about that.

Alpenrose

Lucas
Lucas
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Nov 20, 2017 - 9:13 AM in reply to Removed user

You're really up to date on your Swiss news Alpenrose! Do you have relatives here that keep you in touch with or do you just subscribe to daily Swiss newspapers?

I'm always amazed anything gets done here really - between their democratic representation to the power of the average resident / hotel owner!

Last modified on Nov 20, 2017 - 9:14 AM by Lucas

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