Switzerland in September - 3 week planning help

Switzerland in September - 3 week planning help

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Slowpoke
Slowpoke
4486 posts
expert
Jan 14, 2018 - 11:35 PM

I'm desperately seeking the images, and will try to find my way to Aha if I ever get that far north.

Slowpoke

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
4486 posts
expert
Jan 15, 2018 - 1:08 AM in reply to Slowpoke

I forgot to include the link to Switzerland Mobility...sorry.

<<"The trails-

The premier web site for all forms of personal transportation in Switzerland is "Switzerland Mobility."

I have set the site to it's opening page, where you can choose "Hiking" which I have done.

I zoomed in near Lauterbrunnen and Wengen.

You'll not the heavier green lines amongst the profusion of lighter weight ones.

The heavy ones are named routes or national routes. Click on a heavy green line, and follow the pop-up. Several menus further will give you more detailed maps, an altitude profile, accommodation information, etc.

The site has search function.

"Suchen" -- seek.

I have trouble making it do what I want, but I've had the best luck searching for place names.">

Here it is:

map.wanderland.ch/?lang=de&route=all&bgLa yer=pk&resolution=20&s eason=summer&layers=Wa nderland&E=2635835&N=1 163595

Slowpoke

Last modified on Jan 15, 2018 - 1:09 AM by Slowpoke
Peterli
Peterli
396 posts
top member
Jan 15, 2018 - 1:58 AM in reply to Slowpoke

Hello Slowpoke,

You said "I'm desperately seeking the images, and will try to find my way to Aha if I ever get that far north". Well, my sister called me for supper while I was trying to finish up my last bit and I guess I posted it instead of leaving it open to complete. I tried to reopen my last to edit but could not see a way to do so. So here, better late than never, are the two images. I may have one of Aha but it will probably be at home.

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Peterli
Peterli
396 posts
top member
Jan 15, 2018 - 2:12 AM

Hello again,

Aha ! Here we go, I found this on Google Images using search words "Bahnhof Aha DB". I was travelling on a train like this one.

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rockoyster
rockoyster
3367 posts
expert
Jan 15, 2018 - 2:30 AM

Not to be mistaken with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ A-ha

Peterli
Peterli
396 posts
top member
Jan 15, 2018 - 4:17 AM in reply to rockoyster

Talk about getting off the original topic ! Definitely not to be confused with the Norwegian group Aha ! Also not to be confused with the Icelandic business Aha which in partnership with the Israeli firm Skytrex is doing drone deliveries of food in Reykjavik. youtu.be/w_foIhQT2X8

kperigo
kperigo
34 posts
active member
Jan 15, 2018 - 4:13 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Slowpoke, in 1989 Los Angeles celebrated the 50th anniversary of Union Station. Highlight of this occasion was the amazing exhibition rolling stock brought into Union Station by the Union Pacific, Southern Pacific and Santa Fe railroads. I took full advantage of having full access to all of these engines and passenger cars especially. Best of all though I was able to ride the UP 8444 as it was know at the time from LA over the Cajon Pass after the event. This was done in parallel with Santa Fe steam engine. As you can imagine crowds of people lined the tracks. Attached is a photo of this engine taken in 2011..

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Slowpoke
Slowpoke
4486 posts
expert
Jan 15, 2018 - 4:20 PM in reply to kperigo

Hi Kay-

My daughter lives in Omaha, where they have a Big Boy on static display.

Not nearly as nice as what you experienced, but impressive.

I'll see if I can find a couple of photos.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Jan 15, 2018 - 4:20 PM by Slowpoke
kperigo
kperigo
34 posts
active member
Jan 15, 2018 - 4:29 PM

This thread has indeed wandered a bit. But travel is all about wandering is it not.

Getting back to the business at hand. Thanks to all the gentlemen (I hope I got that right) who have contributed so far to my query for help. I have a lot to digest.

Rockoyster, I spent some time this morning looking at the route you suggest for the BE via Lugano and the Centovalli Express. I assume this includes the BE bus from Tirano to Lugano? It does look interesting and appealing.

Slowpoke, thanks for the links to hiking information. Have yet to dive into that. Taking into consideration your suggestion that I change my reservations to go to Wengen and BO first. I wonder though about going directly to such high altitude. Neither of us has ever experienced altitude sickness, but it has been more than 20 years since traveled to any mountainous area. Though we flew over the alps a few years ago, I doubt that counts. :)

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
4486 posts
expert
Jan 15, 2018 - 6:30 PM in reply to kperigo

Hi Kay-

<<"I wonder though about going directly to such high altitude. Neither of us has ever experienced altitude sickness, but it has been more than 20 years since traveled to any mountainous area.">>

That is a legitimate concern, and, in fact that would have arisen at some point as we discuss hikes.

I thought about it while writing earlier, but forgot to include it.

To convert the qualitative "high altitude" to quantitative numbers - which are given as M.u.M on all the maps in the German convention ( unless, as Peterli will point out, you are in the French-speaking area........). M.ü.M is "Meter über Meer" - which translates as meters above the sea (level) . "m" for short.

A meter is approximately 39.4 inches....about 10 % more than a yard.

Altitudes -

Paris - 35 m

Basel - 270 m

Luzern - 435 m ( most of the Swiss lakes are at roughly 400 meters)

Interlaken - 563 M

Lauterbrunnen - 795 M

Wengen - 1274 m ( about 3/4 of a mile).

Männlichen - 2230m about 1.3 miles

Kleine Scheidegg - 2061 m

Schilthorn - 2970 m - 9740 feet

Jungfraujoch - 3572 m - 11720 feet.

Typical cabin pressurization in Boeing 767 and many other airliners is equivalent to 7,000 feet. About 2130 meters.

I don't notice any effects when I walk from Männlichen to Kleine Scheidegg soon after arriving.

However, if I try to climb up the peak ("Gipfel" ) at Mänlichen going up about 100 meters above the Männlichen lift station, I find that I pant a lot and have to pause to catch my breath. It is a pretty steep climb.

If you are worried about it, you could get used to the altitude in stages. Easy stuff the first day or two. Walk first on the valley floor from Lauterbrunnen 795m to Stechelberg 910m ...nice almost level walk with the waterfalls on the cliff walls to look at.

Then, ride up to Mürren from Stechelberg and walk back to Grütschalp, thence the cable way down to Lauterbrunnen. M to G is a bit downhill -1638 m to 1486 m. (Although, I prefer to walk in the other direction, so I look at the Jungfrau massif as I walk toward it).

www.myswissalps.com/hi king/gruetschalp-muerren

Or, do it all in the reverse direction, using the cable car from Lauterbrunnen up to Grütschalp to start out.

You can also walk around Wengen and nearby to try that less than one mile high altitude. Then, ride up to Männlichen and walk to Kleine Scheidegg. It is an easy mildly down hill walk (2230->2061m) , with a few very short moderate ups and downs.

Slowpoke

If that goes well, you should be OK.

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Peterli
Peterli
396 posts
top member
Jan 15, 2018 - 7:57 PM

Hello Slowpoke and others following this thread,

Metres above sea level translates into French as "mêtres au-dessus de la mer" but as far as I know there is no tidy French equivalent to the German M.ü.M. If you are looking at a sign, it will simply say, for instance, 1607 m (for this illustration I chose the elevation of le Chasseral, which overlooks le Lac de Bienne (Bielersee).

What may interest you is the following article about the "Pierres du Niton" which are the basis for the calculation of all elevations in Switzerland. From Wikipedia: The Pierres du Niton (French for Neptune's Stones) are two unusual rocks which are visible from Quai Gustave-Ador in the harbor of Lake Geneva, Switzerland. They are remnants from the last ice age, left by the Rhone glacier. The Repère Pierre du Niton is the name of the rock which is bigger and further from the shore.

The word Niton is derived from the ancient water god Neptune, who was revered by the Gauls who settled at the lake, as old inscriptions in Geneva and Lausanne indicate.

Guillaume-Henri Dufour used the Repère as a height starting point by the development of the Dufourmaps from 1845 to 1864 in the graduation 1:100 000. At that time the height over sea level was estimated and decreed to be 376.86 m. Up to today, this stone forms the authoritative point of the Swiss height measurement system. However, the height was newly evaluated in 1902 to be 373.6 m over sea level. This is why the data in maps of Switzerland made before 1902 differ by 3.26 m from today's official values.

rockoyster
rockoyster
3367 posts
expert
Jan 15, 2018 - 8:01 PM in reply to kperigo

Hello Kay,

You wrote “I assume this includes the BE bus from Tirano to Lugano?”.

Yes it does.

Also see reference to Centovalli here jerrygarrett.wordpress .com/2013/03/15/switze rlands-eight-greatest-train-rides/. The description of the William Tell in that post is dated. It’s now the Gotthard Panorama Express and no longer includes meal on boat.

You are in for a great trip.

(Mr) rockoyster 🤓

Last modified on Jan 15, 2018 - 8:04 PM by rockoyster
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
4486 posts
expert
Jan 15, 2018 - 9:11 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Kandersteg -

I forgot to include Kandersteg at 1176 m.

There are some hikes from there that will get you up to true "high altitude."

The Oeschinesee is a very pretty mountain lake. I dont have a decent pictyre; it was grey and cloudy when we were there.

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/trip-report-part-5-kandersteg-oeschinensee

www.oeschinensee.ch/en /summer/

It is at 1578 m.

If you are ambitious, you can climb a well known trail to Hohtürli and the Blümlisalphütte SAC hut at around 2780 m.

map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&lang=en&bgLa yer=ch.swisstopo.pixel karte-farbe&layers=ch.bav.ha ltestellen-oev,ch.swisstopo.swiss tlm3d-wanderwege&layers_visi bility=false,true&E=26 22661.41&N=1150257.10& zoom=6

Gemmi Pass -

A famous walk along an old trans-Alpine trade route is over the Gemmi-Pass at 2314 m between Kandersteg and Leukerbad.

Some hiking ideas around Kandersteg, in addition to the rail-trails on both the north slope and the south slope ( Südrampe) of the rail line:

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/insurance

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/1904-leukerbad-bern-hike-the-gemmi-or

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/a-tad-off-the-beaten-path-part-4-gemmi

and, as linked previously:

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/bls-sudrampe-trail.

In that thread I have mentioned:

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/bls-sudrampe-trail.

If in your time in Kanderstg, you were to venture into the Lötschental from Goppenstein, you would be in a now popular valley that was cut off from any vehicle access until about 1910.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ L%C3%B6tschental

A rather unique feature of the Lötschental is the Tschäggättä.

From Wiki -

<<"Tschäggättä

The Lötschental is known for its unique local custom involving the so-called Tschäggättä: frightening figures wearing furs and carved wooden masks that walk the streets during carnival tossing soot at onlookers. The custom developed during the valley’s history of relative isolation, though its exact origins are a matter of debate. The first official mention of the Tschäggättä occurs in a church chronicle of Kippel dating from 1860, and witnesses the local Prior lamenting the difficulties of enforcing a ban on “the terrible misuse of the so-called Tschäggättä” [1].">>

I have attached a picture of one at a wood carvers shop.

Another picture illustrates the old architecture of the typical Valais buildings, with a new and modern church of striking and appropriate architecture.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Jan 15, 2018 - 9:16 PM by Slowpoke
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Peterli
Peterli
396 posts
top member
Jan 15, 2018 - 9:40 PM

Hi Slowpoke,

I was so intrigued by the architecture of the church in your second image (Angles-1097) that I decided to find its location. Attached is an aerial view of Blatten in the Lötschental with the church pretty well at dead-centre.

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kperigo
kperigo
34 posts
active member
Jan 16, 2018 - 12:10 AM

I have decided to give serious consideration to changing my current reservations so trip can begin in Wengen and BO. However, I am now overwhelmed with all this amazing information I have received from you.

Will arrive Based SBB from Paris on September 11. Spend 1 night in Basel or go directly to Wengen?

Wengen 6 or 7N

Then what? Slowpoke suggest ending in Lucerne. Rockoyster thinks Montreux. Pererli likes the lakes in Western Switzerland. I am all in for BE to Lugano and Centovalli Express. Want to work in GE and now Gotthard line. All of this plus Sils Maria, Zermatt, Kandersteg and Luzern.

Want to return to Paris on October 3 latest.

As Jean Luc would say, "make it work".

With much gratitude, Kay

rockoyster
rockoyster
3367 posts
expert
Jan 16, 2018 - 5:34 AM in reply to kperigo

Hi Kay,

We just have the fun of offering up suggestions. In the end you get to make the tough calls.

I would say the Centovalli AND the Gotthard is just being a bit greedy. 😇

If you are changing your reservations I'm sticking with "the most efficient routing would be Lucerne - Wengen - Kandersteg - Zermatt - Chur or St Moritz (on Glacier Express) -Sils Maria.

After Sils maybe to Lugano via Bernina Express for a bit of Lakeside R&R? Gothard Panorama Express Lugano back to Lucerne then off to Paris via Montreux". So if you start at Wengen then you need to get back to Lucern at some stage. The end of the trip seems natural for that and would fit with Slowpoke's suggestion to finish up in Lucerne.

Toss up whether you want to substitute Gotthard Panorama back to Lucerne with Centovalli to Montreux and then Golden Pass Line to Lucerne. You could always chuck in a side trip on the Mont Blanc Express if you are getting bored (www.chamonix.net/engli sh/transport/train).

To further quote Jean Luc "Things are only impossible until they're not!"

Time to get the dart board out!

kperigo
kperigo
34 posts
active member
Jan 17, 2018 - 12:23 AM

Hello all,

All right I have a plan. Rockoyster is right, can't do it all. So I went back to my original idea, and tweaked that taking in the wonderful advice I received here.

September 5 fly to Paris.

Paris 5N

September 11 train to Basel

Basel 1N

Wengen 6N

Kandersteg 4N

Zernatt 2N

Sils Maria 4N (via GEX)

BE to Lugano

Lugano 1N

Luzern 3N (via Centovalli Express)

October 3 train to Paris from Luzern via Basel

I think this works. Though I cannot figure out how to get schedule from Zermatt to St Moritz, then on to Sils on SBB site. Tried via Brig, Andermatt, Chur never get a GEX train. So doing something wrong.

kay

rockoyster
rockoyster
3367 posts
expert
Jan 17, 2018 - 2:18 AM in reply to kperigo

Almost perfect Kay.

I would go Lugano to Lucerne on the Gotthard Panorama. Going the Centovalli route is a long way round.

For the GEX you need to search Zermatt to St Moritz via Andermatt first. Then find the bus to Sils Maria as a separate search. If you try to search the whole journey direct the timetable will offer you some quicker routes.

Or just search Zermatt to Sils Maria VIA St Moritz to get the attached.

Last modified on Jan 17, 2018 - 2:22 AM by rockoyster
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Slowpoke
Slowpoke
4486 posts
expert
Jan 17, 2018 - 2:44 AM in reply to rockoyster

<<"I would go Lugano to Lucerne on the Gotthard Panorama.">>

So would I.

Anyone with heavy railroad experience would enjoy the Centovalli line, but be awed by the Gotthard.

You guys in Tasmania don't have enough mountain railways to appreciate the differences. :-)

Slowpoke

rockoyster
rockoyster
3367 posts
expert
Jan 17, 2018 - 3:12 AM in reply to Slowpoke

Oh yeah Slowpoke? What do you call this www.wcwr.com.au 😥

But seriously, Kay, the whole Gotthard experience with commentary and history of the line is very special.

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