Itinerary help - 16 days in Switzerland in October

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Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5170 posts
expert
Jul 25, 2017 - 8:26 AM in reply to slothrabbit

i slothrabbit-

I have enjoyed my stays at the Hotel Central am See in Weggis. There are plenty of others. I'd go back.

Well run, excellent rooms on the lake side. Absolutely wonderful views across the lake. Kitchen is ok to good, but gets slow on busy weekend nights.

It is a lot calmer than Luzern in tourist season. It closes in the Winter.

Even better, but definitely out of the way, and with a kitchen that does "slow food" is the Hotel Bergsonne in Rigi Kaltbad. When I was there in May, they were getting ready to sell the hotel....kids did not want to take it over...it is hard hard work to run a hotel with a good kitchen and fantastic wine cellar.....

www.bergsonne.ch/

Click on "aktuell"

I've attached a couple of images from up there.

When I go there, I have to plan a journey....it is not a quick trip. Good things take time and effort.

Slowpoke

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slothrabbit
slothrabbit
40 posts
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Jul 25, 2017 - 3:25 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Hi Lucas and Slowpoke,

Is 4 nights in Lucerne sufficient? I plan to do a couple of day trips, walk around the old town, visit the Transportation Museum if there's time and go to Mount Rigi.

Current plan looks like this:

  • Day 12: travel from Vevey to Lucerne. Explore old town Lucerne
  • Day 13: Mount Rigi or Basel day trip depending on weather
  • Day 14: Day trip to Zurich for flea market (Saturday)
  • Day 15: Mount Rigi or Basel day trip depending on what we did on Day 13
  • Day 16: visit transportation museum. Depart Zurich at 10pm

Is there something else you'd suggest we do at Lucerne? Will Mount Rigi or Mount Pilatus be better in to visit in October?

Thank you once again!

slothrabbit
slothrabbit
40 posts
active member
Jul 25, 2017 - 3:27 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Oh ya, forgot to say that my husband and I picked Lucerne over Weggis since we are intending to do day trips! The view from Bergsonne looks amazing!!!! Alas, we won't be heading there.

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5170 posts
expert
Jul 25, 2017 - 3:47 PM in reply to slothrabbit

<<"Oh ya, forgot to say that my husband and I picked Lucerne over Weggis since we are intending to do day trips! The view from Bergsonne looks amazing!!!! Alas, we won't be heading there.">>

I understood that. I thought you might find the views of the lake interesting. Also, some idea of how Weggis is situated.

It is a beautiful feature of Luzern, and rewards time spent.

Slowpoke

Lucas
Lucas
9627 posts
expert &
moderator
Jul 25, 2017 - 4:29 PM in reply to slothrabbit

Yes definitely enough time to do what you want in Luzern.

I'd also consider Bern as a day trip rather than Basel (or as well as if the weather really doesn't cooperate!).

Lucas

Last modified on Jul 25, 2017 - 4:29 PM by Lucas
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5170 posts
expert
Jul 25, 2017 - 4:30 PM in reply to slothrabbit

Regarding your t time traveling near Luzern with two out of four days on day trips.........

<<"Thanks so much for your reply! You're right, we intend to travel at a very slow pace! No rushing about places so we can fully enjoy the area.">>

?

Luzern -

Take a look at the pictures from my earlier post in this thread.

Pilatus vs. the Rigi-

www.myswissalps.com/pi latus

www.myswissalps.com/ri gi

I have read that taking children under age 2 to high altitudes ( above 2000 meters) is not advised. If I understand correctly, it is because they are unable to express themselves if the suffer an ill effects from the low oxygen concentration.

Someone who knows more may comment, but the advice that i have seen suggests checking with you pediatrician.

If true, that means avoiding the Jungfraujoch, especially, and also Pilatus. Rigi is not so high.

In Luzern:

Did you check this link?

www.myswissalps.com/lu cerne

I think you may have left too little time for simply exploring in Luzern. of course, those judgements are up to you.

A lake boat ride, especially at the southern end of the lake, is really scenic, and relaxing. I like to take a train to Flüelen and get on the boat there, I ride all the way to Luzern, or, sometimes get off at Brunnen, perhaps get a bite with a view of the lake, and catch the train back to Luzern ( station is ten minute walk from the boat landing). There are occasional buses.

www.myswissalps.com/bo atlakelucerne

The tourist Information office by the railhead of track 2 in Luzern main station is very helpful. Chat with them a bit, and get one of the free city brochures with a map in it. You'll find a few things to look at.

If you want to include museums (?) the Rosengart Collection and the small very nice Picasso museum in the old town will take a bit of time. If your not going for museums, forget it. Otherwise, look up the Rosengart Collection.

If not doing museums, while visiting the Lion of Luzern, you might find the Glacier Garden ( Gletscher Garten) interesting, and I highly recommend the Bourbaki Panorama. Anyone that I have taken there has been pleased and impressed.

www.myswitzerland.com/ en-us/bourbaki-panorama-luzern-luzern.html

www.bourbakipanorama.c h/en/

I took my then 8 year old granddaughter to the Lion and attached is a page from a photobook I prepared recording our journey.

Basel-

www.myswissalps.com/ba sel

Do you have specific interests in Basel? I go for the art museums. While there, I look at the Tingueley fountain/water sculpture. I'd not it put it high on my list for a day trip with a one-year old, but, those choices are personal. An older child could really enjoy the fountain.

Also, since you've traveled in Europe a bit, perhaps this will mean something to you. For some reason, when I am in Basel, except for the Tingueley fountain, I feel like I'm in a German city, not a Swiss one. Can't pin down the exact reason. I prefer to be in a "Swiss" city. ;-)

www.basel.com/en/Media /Attractions/Sightseei ng/Tinguely-Fountain

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnixSbC_pI

Slowpoke

Last modified on Jul 25, 2017 - 4:36 PM by Slowpoke
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Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5170 posts
expert
Jul 25, 2017 - 4:43 PM in reply to slothrabbit

I agree with Lucas about Bern, and agree with him about enough time- if you spend it in /near Luzern.

But, you have two days away from Luzern out of 4 1/2......3 days away if you take time to visit a nearby mountain.

I just reread your list of interests. I had assumed that you would not want to hike with your 1 year old. But, if you do, you can spend a pleasant day on some part of the Swiss Path, combined with a lake boat ride(s).

See this link:

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/the-swiss-path-and-southern-lake-lucerne

for some possibilities.

Slowpoke

slothrabbit
slothrabbit
40 posts
active member
Jul 26, 2017 - 12:39 PM in reply to Lucas

Yep! We are saving Bern for a bad weather day while in Lauterbrunnen/Wengen!

slothrabbit
slothrabbit
40 posts
active member
Jul 26, 2017 - 1:26 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Oh my!! The Swiss Path is lovely!!!! We would definitely love to do that! You're right -- too many days out of Lucerne. I had initially wanted to do both the Zurich flea market and Basel zoo. Will take out Basel then since visiting the zoo isn't ranked too high on the list.

slothrabbit
slothrabbit
40 posts
active member
Jul 26, 2017 - 2:11 PM

Ok, so I went to add in more details to my itinerary and am wondering if I should take 1 day from Wengen and put to Lucerne. The views from both Pilatus and Rigi look amazing and I am so tempted to visit both! Thoughts?

4 nights in Lauterbrunnen

  • Day 1: arrive Zurich at 6am. Travel to Lauterbrunnen. Rest and explore.
  • Day 2: Do a slow walk if we're feeling up to it -- Lauterbrunnen >> Trummelbach falls >> Stechelberg
  • Day 3: day trip to Bern (or on a bad weather day)
  • Day 4: day trip to Ballenberg Open Air Museum and Lake Brienz

4 nights in Wengen

  • Day 5: travel from Lauterbrunnen to Wengen. Walk from First to Bachalpsee.
  • Day 6: Walk from Maanlichen to Kleine Scheidegg, or if feeling up to it, Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg
  • Day 7: currently empty, maybe explore Murren?
  • Day 8: currently empty, maybe do another hike or visit Lake Thun -- lots of people prefer Lake Brienz to Lake Thun. Should I skip Lake Thun?

3 nights in Vevey

  • Day 9: travel from Wengen to Vevey. Rest.
  • Day 10: explore Vevey
  • Day 11: day trip to Montreux

4 nights in Lucerne

  • Day 12: travel from Vevey to Lucerne. Explore old town Lucerne
  • Day 13: Mount Pilatus
  • Day 14: Day trip to Zurich for flea market (Saturday)
  • Day 15: Swiss Path
  • Day 16: visit transportation museum. Depart Zurich at 10pm
Last modified on Jul 26, 2017 - 2:19 PM by slothrabbit
slothrabbit
slothrabbit
40 posts
active member
Jul 26, 2017 - 2:19 PM in reply to Slowpoke

Slowpoke,

Bourbaki Panorama looks absolutely impressive!!! Thanks for highlighting it! Have planned it in! We're not so much into art museums. For reference, our favorite museums are the American Museum of Natural History and the MET in NYC. MOMA was too abstract for us. So we'll be giving those art museums in Lucerne a pass!

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5170 posts
expert
Jul 26, 2017 - 3:52 PM in reply to slothrabbit

Hi Slothrabbit -

Near the Jungfrau, you have not included a trip up to the Jungfraujoch ( I know...discussed earlier, just mentioning it, may be altitude problem) or Schilthorn (altitude?). It is wise to have some slack for bad weather, and so you might not want top cut back your time there. As you note - Bern is good for a cloudy day, and I note another alternative below - the Rhone Valley.

This map can give you altitudes:map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&lang=en&bgLa yer=ch.swisstopo.pixel karte-farbe&layers=ch.bav.ha ltestellen-oev,ch.swisstopo.swiss tlm3d-wanderwege&layers_visi bility=false,true&X=15 8353.49&Y=635315.09&zo om=5

It also shows hiking trails.

Day 6-

The walk from Wengen <=> Kleine Scheidegg is not my favorite. Check this thread where I have posted some maps and discussion with my July 26th post. 8oo meters elevation change.

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/itinerary-for-7-days-in-zurich-lucerne-grindelwald

Day 7 could be a good day to go up to Schilthorn from Mürren. there is not a lot to explore in Mürren. If you want to see a bunch of tourists with Rick Steves' book in their hands, youi coud make the short trip to Gimelwald, just below Mürren.

One way to deal with the situation instead of definitely adding a day at Luzern might be to leave for Vevey a day early as a function of all you have seen, or bad weather. There is plenty to do near there, or, move one day from there to Luzern. In October, most places have rooms available on short notice.

The Rhone Valley -

Here is another possibility, easily done from Lauterbrunnen. It takes you to the Rhone Valley, which is usually sunny, and warmer and much drier that the north side of the Alps. Take a train via Spiez (change) and on to Hohtenn. Walk the Südrampe trail (technically, the BLS Südrampe Trail) to Ausserberg. Take the train back to Lauterbrunnen.

Here is why:

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/bls-sudrampe-trail

If you go, taking the train to Hohtenn from Spiez will automatically take you up the old, scenic route via Kandersteg, then through the short tunnel to the Rhone Valley. The train you pick up at Spiez is called The Lötschberger and runs once per hour (starts in Bern) . When you are looking at the timetable, you can enter Kandersteg in the "via" box as another way to force the choices to the upper route. That would be the appropriate action if you wished to go directly to Visp or Brig by the scenic route.

Otherwise, the timetable defaults to the fastest route through the new "basis" tunnel from Spiez to Visp. The views of the inside of the tunnel pass quickly...it is a fast train...and it is good thing, because they are not very scenic. It could save time on the way back, perhaps.

When you have finished your walk at Ausserberg, you can ride back toward Kandersteg ( the way you came from) or, take the train down to Brig, hop over to Visp ( many trains through Brig pass through Visp) and return to Spiez and Lauterbrunnen by the new tunnel. Could be faster, even though you start out in the wrong direction at Ausserberg. (Nice train ride down to Brig, though.)

Timing from Lauterbrunnen, on an arbitrary day in early October (Trains leave Lauterbrunnen at xx03):

0903 LB--> Hohtenn- Arrive Hohtenn 1059.

Use toilet at train station. Walk to Ausserberg.

Minimum time in a real rush - 3 hours. Don't rush; allow 4 hours or even morethan 4 hours if you take a long break at the beer garden. It is easy to get in a conversation there. Once you are at Ausserberg you can decide whether to go up or down ...whichever train comes next....although the ones down to Brig via Lalden only run 8 minutes after the ones that go direction Bern ( up the hill) and take about 10-15 minutes longer to LB, but it saves waiting an hour. There is also a bus down to Visp at xx32 and 59 with good connection for Spiez. (to see that in the timetable do not use via Lalden in the via box in the turntable ). There is a restaurant with a terrace at Ausserberg Station. Nice place for a beer after a hike, while waiting for a train. If you are going back toward Hohtenn and Bern (uphill) allow a couple of minutes to get to the tracks on the far side via the short tunnel at the station.

Depart Ausserberg for Spiez ( direction Bern) at xx48

Ausserberg at 1448 -> Lauterbrunnen at 1655

AB 1548 ( 5 hours for the walk) -> LB at 1755

Or slip your start in the morning by an hour if you are feeling lazy or want to come down from Wengen.

The nice thing about this hike is that hourly service from Ausserberg back to the Lauterbrunnen Valley runs at least as late as 2048 on the route direction Bern, so you don't have to rush.

It could be a good trip on a cloudy day.

Slowpoke

Last modified on Jul 26, 2017 - 3:56 PM by Slowpoke
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5170 posts
expert
Jul 26, 2017 - 4:10 PM in reply to slothrabbit

Bourbaki Museum-

See attached page from a photo book that I prepared after a trip there in 2009.

Slowpoke

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slothrabbit
slothrabbit
40 posts
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Jul 27, 2017 - 8:45 AM in reply to Slowpoke

<<Near the Jungfrau, you have not included a trip up to the Jungfraujoch ( I know...discussed earlier, just mentioning it, may be altitude problem) or Schilthorn (altitude?).>>

Yup, the high altitude with my baby is the only reason why we have left Jungfraujoch and Schilthorn out of the equation. But now... Looking at pics... I am tempted........ Will ask her doc about it! More research to decide Jungfraujoch vs. Schilthorn, and Pilatus vs. Rigi. I wished I could visit them all!

<<It is wise to have some slack for bad weather, and so you might not want top cut back your time there. One way to deal with the situation instead of definitely adding a day at Luzern might be to leave for Vevey a day early as a function of all you have seen, or bad weather. There is plenty to do near there, or, move one day from there to Luzern. In October, most places have rooms available on short notice.>>

You are right. I forgot about this point about bad weather plan although I had brought up earlier in the thread too. Booking the places on short notice sounds like the best way to optimize this. But it feels scary though!

slothrabbit
slothrabbit
40 posts
active member
Jul 27, 2017 - 8:46 AM in reply to Slowpoke

This is awesome. Thank you thank you THANK YOU! I want to be in Switzerland already.

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