Lucerne itinerary help

Lucerne itinerary help

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rockoyster
rockoyster
3914 posts
expert
Apr 6, 2018 - 10:51 PM in reply to Hemanshu

If you have a smartphone or tablet there is a handy MeteoSwiss app.

Webcams can be useful too - bit.ly/2pORTKs and bit.ly/2Iz5WdW and bit.ly/2Iy8adI etc.

Last modified on Apr 6, 2018 - 11:21 PM by rockoyster
1960man
1960man
511 posts
top member
Apr 6, 2018 - 11:51 PM in reply to Hemanshu

Middle of June days are the longest days in northern hemisphere and late May is only 1 month short of that period, so the month of May has long hours of daylight in central Europe.

1960man
1960man
511 posts
top member
Apr 7, 2018 - 12:03 AM

From Luzern, you cannot beat the full length boat journey from Luzern to Fluelen, extremely relaxing and scenic all the way; and come back by train to save time. You should do it on one of the 100 year old paddle steamers, but your travel dates coincide with the Spring timetable on the SGV steamers, so you could only catch the 11.12 from Luzern (the 09.12 is only a steamer on Sundays in the Spring)

You see lots of high mountains, lots of typically Swiss lakeside dwellings and gardens, the Schiller rock, the Tellskapelle...

If you choose, you can break your boat journey at the Rütli meadow, the cradle of the Swiss confederation.

Last modified on Apr 7, 2018 - 12:14 AM by 1960man
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5006 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 12:16 AM in reply to 1960man

I prefer it in the other direction, as noted earlier in the thread. Lets you get off in Brunnen, if you wish, after seeing the Urnersee.

Slowpoke

rockoyster
rockoyster
3914 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 4:58 AM in reply to Hemanshu

If you get off at Brunnen as suggested by Slowpoke you are not too far away from the world's steepest funicular. See www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/day-trip-to-stoos-worlds-steepest-funicular and stoos-muotatal.ch/en/facts-about-the-new-funicular-railway/. 😎

Last modified on Apr 7, 2018 - 4:59 AM by rockoyster
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5006 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 7:31 AM in reply to 1960man

Hi 1960man-

Those steamers are worth a detour. Some of the images show parts of the Urnersee.

Slowpoke

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Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5006 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 8:02 AM in reply to rockoyster

And, you can get off at Vitznau for the cog-wheel train up to the top of the Rigi.

Unlike Brunnen, where you have 5-10 minute walk from the boat landing to the railroad station ( shuttle bus usually available), the boat lets you off only a few meters from the terminal of the railroad. And, you get to see the turntable.

Slowpoke

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Hemanshu
Hemanshu
15 posts
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Apr 7, 2018 - 6:32 PM

Thank you so much all for your Fluelen suggestion, looks really good. So if I drop the plan of Rhine falls (which I should) then with what should I club Fluelen trip with? Rigi, Pilatus or Stanserhorn. I think it can be Rigi as I can just go to Vitznau and then to Rigi? I think it will take 4 hours from Lucerne to Fluelen then back to Vitznau? then is it recommended to go to Rigi in afternoon?

rockoyster
rockoyster
3914 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 7:50 PM in reply to Hemanshu

I would go Lucerne - Vitznau - Rigi - Art-Goldau - Flüelen(train) - Lucerne(boat).

Or Lucerne - Weggis - Rigi - Vitznau - Flüelen - Lucerne(train).

Permutations are endless but boat both ways to Flüelen takes too long unless you really like boats.

Hemanshu
Hemanshu
15 posts
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Apr 7, 2018 - 8:15 PM in reply to rockoyster

thanks for your suggestions, this makes more sense.

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5006 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 9:42 PM in reply to Hemanshu

<<"thanks for your suggestions, this makes more sense.">>

This does not make more sense. It is simply an option, and a less desirable one.

In planning this trip, you have to keep in mind the relative frequency of trains ( and buses) vs. the less frequent boat departures. The one boat service that is fairly frequent all day long is Vitznau to/from Luzern. Pretty much hourly for much of the day..

The boat service northwards from Flüelen is less frequent, particularly toward the end of the day. So, you do not want to end your day at Flüelen if you wish to take the boat back north, partway or all the way. However, If you plan to take a train back north from Flüelen, then, the only problem is reduced frequency of boat service to Flüelen as at the end of the day. There are some boat arrivals, and there will be trains available. That could be done, but it can constrain the afternoon portion of your travels.

Train service, Luzern to Flüelen, is also frequent. (And, the reverse, too). Depending on the time of day, anywhere from 2 to 4 trains per hour, more in the morning, duration about an hour to about one hour and 10 minutes. Boat is from 2 3/4 to 3 hours L to/from F.

So, my original recommendation stands. Take a morning train to Flüelen (0818 or 0939) . Time it to catch a boat at Flüelen. 0946 is best boat, 1100 is OK. Ride the boat to Vitznau (Arrive at 1148 or 1248). Elapsed time :F->V is under 2 hours. Catch the cograil to Rigi Kulm - at xx15. Arrive Rigi Kulm 32 minutes later. So, the second of those connections gets you to Rigi Kulm at 1320. If you did not grab a bite on the boat or between trains ( or even on some of the trains) 1320 is tolerable for lunch, if a bit late. Wander around the Rigi for a couple of hours, perhaps the nice easy scenic walk from Kulm to Rigi-Kaltbad via Rigi Staffelhöhe and Känzeli ( Chänzeli) . Return by train at 1515 or 1615 from R-KB. Get to Vitznau at 1540 or 1640. Boat to Luzern as late as 1949- or earlier frequent boats. For example at 1649 or 1749. Arrive Luzern 58 minutes later.

A variation is to take the cableway ( large cabin) from R-KB to Weggis, then walk 10-15 minutes downhill to the boat landing at Weggis and catch a boat back to Luzern. Usually, it is a boat which goes through Vitznau, or comes from Vitznau or maybe you catch a bus from Weggis boat landing to Vitznau. You'd have to work that out with the timetables, but it will fit.

That is my recommendation. You get the whole boat ride from one end of the lake to the other, split into two parts. And, you have schedule flexibility at the end of the day.

Slowpoke

rockoyster
rockoyster
3914 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 10:02 PM in reply to Slowpoke

“This does not make more sense. It is simply an option, and a less desirable one.”

I think the OP was simply making the point that not going both ways by boat made more sense than what he was proposing.

As I said, the permutations are endless. But now he has the perfect formula so can’t go wrong.

1960man
1960man
511 posts
top member
Apr 7, 2018 - 10:53 PM

I don't agree with the notion of going by train to Fluelen first and getting the boat back.

The sense of adventure is much better if the boat is taken from Luzern, as each vista opens up slowly. If you go the other way round, you have seen some of the scenery before you get on the boat, which I think is less attractive to tourists.

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5006 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 11:11 PM in reply to 1960man

Hi 1960man -

On what portion of the train ride do you see the lake scenery? I think it is only the part near Meggen, and if has a different perspective on the Rigi and Pilatus, compared to the route that the lake boats take from Vitznau. Those boats don't go into the bight by Meggen and Kuessnacht am Rigi

And, if anything, I'd say that the Urnersee is closed in, and the lake opens up as you head northwards. My opinion, anyway

Slowpoke

rockoyster
rockoyster
3914 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 11:12 PM in reply to Hemanshu

And now . . . for something different.

If you left Lucerne at 7:18 for Lugano you could return on the Gotthard Panorama Express (www.myswissalps.com/go tthardpanoramaexpress) departing Lugano 9:32.

Just another permutation (just don’t try it on a Monday unless you want to follow same route on regular trains).

Last modified on Apr 7, 2018 - 11:27 PM by rockoyster
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5006 posts
expert
Apr 7, 2018 - 11:27 PM in reply to rockoyster

<<"I think the OP was simply making the point that not going both ways by boat made more sense than what he was proposing.

As I said, the permutations are endless. But now he has the perfect formula so can’t go wrong.">>

Hi Rockoyster. This is my original suggestion in one of my first posts. -

<<"You might take the train to Flüelen and ride the boat north to Vitznau, for example.">>

And, of course, there is no perfect formula, as you know. You may take your tongue out of cheek. ;-)

The perspective that I presented is based on having been stuck at the south end of the lake late in the day, often on the western shore, I have to admit, and having to find my way to the train lines instead of catching a boat to Luzern. It can be done, but it takes more care with the scheduling process. I think it is better as I explained, but if the OP wants to vary his journey, then it may be a bad idea.

If he wants to travel early, and not spend so much time on the Rigi (which was one of h is original goals), then the route back via A-G becomes a better option.

Actually, I think that the Luftseilbahn between Weggis and R-KB is a very nice way to do it. It takes more work to explain and sort out the scheduling, so I left it to hemanshu to tackle if he wants some exercise with the timetables. And, the short walk at he bottom.

Slowpoke

Hemanshu
Hemanshu
15 posts
new member
Apr 8, 2018 - 12:55 AM

Hi All, I opened up lot of discussion here :-) Thanks for giving me lot of different options but I think its better to be near Lucerne at the end of the day rather too far. I think it may be doable from far as there will be trains (not boat though) but may not be convenient. But if we want to be near Lucerne at the end of the day and fit the plan in a way to take the boat back to Lucerne then we have to do it early as last boat from Flüelen is at 5pm (as per spring operating times on their website) and it might work if we have to take the boat from Vitznau or Weggis as the timings are 6:48pm or 7:05pm respectively. With these timings we can have good amount of time at Rigi or have a stroll near the lake and also have a nice lunch. These are my initial thoughts as I still have to check out the timings and timetables and work it out.

But in a way I also agree with 1960man to take the boat first as we would start fresh and going to enjoy lot if we take the boat first.

As proposed by rockoyster, I think I will go with Lucerne - Weggis - Rigi - Vitznau - Flüelen - Lucerne(train) as the last boat from Vitznau is at 4:10pm reaching 6:03pm at Flüelen and then take either train or bus to Lucerne as both take same amount of time which is 1hr (just checked SBB for a random date end of Apr)

@rockoyster, I am aware of GPEX and seems attractive but I am already doing GEX and BEX (as mentioned in one of earlier post) so I think I will leave this for my next visit.

Thank you all for giving me suggestions and showing me different perspective. Long live swissalps.com :-)

Last modified on Apr 8, 2018 - 12:55 AM by Hemanshu
Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5006 posts
expert
Apr 8, 2018 - 4:48 PM in reply to Hemanshu

Hi Hemanshu-

Good thing you looked up the travel on your dates. I was concerned when you mentioned using an April date, which would be in the Spring schedule, so I started checking again.

I made an error in my post. I used the Summer schedule for the Lake Lucern boats, because I though that you were going in June. Probably caught the date comment in 1960man's post and thought you were going in June. Sorry for the confusion. The Spring schedule has fewer late day boats.

Here is the Spring schedule:

www.lakelucerne.ch/fil eadmin/lakelucerne/con tent/Dokumente_Downloa ds_PDF/01_Fahrplan-Preise/01_Fahrplan/Sai sonaler_Fahrplan/2018/ 2018_Fahrplan_Fruehlin g.pdf

In fact, the Spring schedule, with restricted late day service, runs up until May 25th, and, indeed, the last boat north from Flüelen departs at 1700, not later as I mentioned. So, that confirms your choice of not taking a late day boat northbound.

And, I'm sorry to report that Rockoyster was wrong, too. ;-)

I did not post a "perfect formula.". ;-(.

<<"I think I will go with Lucerne - Weggis - Rigi - Vitznau - Flüelen -

Lucerne(train) as the last boat from Vitznau is at 4:10pm reaching

6:03pm at Flüelen and then take either train or bus to Lucerne as both

take same amount of time which is 1hr (just checked SBB for a random

date end of Apr)">>

You may wish to consider making your stop at Vitznau before going up on the Rigi, although I certainly like the cable car ride from near Weggis.. The issue is that the valley station (die Talstation) of the cableway, in this case one with a large cabin called die Luftseilbahn (LSB) or sometimes Seilbahn, in German, is well above the boat landing. You have about a 10-15 minute up hill to get to it. The altitude change is from 435 meters at the lake to about 480 meters at the Talstation, and the linear distance is about 600 meters. And, at the top, you have to wait to pickup the train to Rigi-Kulm, because the LSB ends at Rigi-Kaltbad.

map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&lang=en&bgLa yer=ch.swisstopo.pixel karte-farbe&layers=ch.bav.ha ltestellen-oev,ch.swisstopo.swiss tlm3d-wanderwege&layers_visi bility=false,false&E=2 676021.13&N=1209776.46 &zoom=8

The cograil train from Vitznau, on the other hand, has a very good connection with the lake boat, and goes all the way up. I like to ride down on the LSB, because I prefer to walk downhill to the ship landing. On the return, you can walk down to Rigi-Kaltbad, or ride the train. Last suitable LSB from Rigi Kaltbad to Weggis Talstation is at 1510. You'll need to check schedules if you try that, but the boat to Vitznau from Luzern always goes through Weggis and continues south to Flüelen as late as 1553 from Weggis (or 1610 from Vitznau. That is the last boat and gets to Flüelen at 1803. Next train to Luzern at 1810. Easy connection. Change at Arth-Goldau, 16 minute connection.

Slowpoke

Hemanshu
Hemanshu
15 posts
new member
Apr 8, 2018 - 7:02 PM in reply to Slowpoke

No worries slowpoke, you have been helpful enough.

Yes as of now going to Rigi via Weggis then come back to Vitznau and catch the boat to Flüelen. If may I ask how much time it will take from Weggis > Rigi > Vitznau, say if I stay one hour at the top strolling around and going and coming back through fastest route so that I can plan the day accordingly and decide on timings and if I have more time then I can have a nice lunch in Vitznau or around Rigi if there are any options (any suggestions here?). You have been really helpful, thank you again!

Slowpoke
Slowpoke
5006 posts
expert
Apr 8, 2018 - 8:29 PM in reply to Hemanshu

Hi Hemanshu -

<<"If may I ask how much time it will take from Weggis > Rigi >

Vitznau, say if I stay one hour at the top strolling around and going

and coming back through fastest route so that I can plan the day

accordingly and decide on timings and if I have more time then I can

have a nice lunch in Vitznau or around Rigi if there are any options

(any suggestions here?). You have been really helpful, thank you again!">>

You certainly may ask. ;-)

The answer will depend on what time you get to Weggis. You can choose your timing.

Assume that you catch the 0912 boat from Luzern, arriving at Weggis at 0953:

www.lakelucerne.ch/fil eadmin/lakelucerne/con tent/Dokumente_Downloa ds_PDF/01_Fahrplan-Preise/01_Fahrplan/Sai sonaler_Fahrplan/2018/ 2018_Fahrplan_Fruehlin g.pdf

Allow 20 minutes to walk up to the Talstation. That is conservative. Then, you will have to wait until 1040 to catch the next LSB.

There is no shuttle bus from Schiffstation to LSB Talstation. You may find bus KB #9 if you work the schedule. It is a schoolbus ( KinderBus) which you might or might not be allowed to ride, but its hours don't match, it runs on weekdays only, and it takes as long as a walk, because it makes so many stops.

(There is one LSB at 1010 up from the Talstation. If you are in good condition and want to run uphill , you might make the 1010. However, you'd better be at the exit from the boat well before it docks, get off fast, and study the maps carefully so tha you make no false turns.)

Assume that you get the 1040 to Rigi-Kaltbad, arriving 1050 at the Bergstation ( Mountain station, top station). The walk to the train station to catch teh cograil train coming up from Vitznau will take more than 5 minutes and less than 10. Assume 10. The next hourly train up is at 1135 arriving at Rigi Kulm at 1147. You have a 35 minute wait. Probably not enough for a meal.

(If you were able to run uphill and get the 1010 LSB, then you would catch a train at Rigi-Kaltbad 1 hour earlier thus getting the 1035 up to Kulm, and get up to the Kulm at the same time as the easy route via Vitznau, which I explain further later in this post.)

You miss the 1035 train no matter what if you take the 1040 LSB . The only way to get the 1035 train at R-KB up to the Kulm is to catch the 1010 LSB up from Weggis. Very hard to do.

So, if you go by Weggis, from the time you leave the Schiffstation, until you get to Rigi Kulm is 1 hour and 54 minutes (0953->1147) , with long gaps in the connections.

Trains down to Vitznau depart Rigi Kulm at the exact hour - 1000, 1100, 1200, etc and yake 40 minutes. To catch the boat to Flüelen at 1610 the last train possible is at 1500.

The better way -

My experience has been that the route up from Vitznau is simpler, faster unless you are an athlete, and has fewer connection gaps.

If you ride the same 0912 boat from Luzern to Vitznau at 1009, you can catch a train up to Rigi Kulm at 1015 and be at Rigi Kulm at 1047. One hour earlier than the route up from Weggis. Note the well-timed connection.

It is easier to put together a reasonable set of connections up top, because you can walk as well as ride to Rigi-Kaltbad to take the LSB down to Weggis.

I highly recommend that you go up from Vitznau. The trip is set up in the schedules to work smoothly that way. Fewer connections, and well-timed.

Slowpoke

PS- There many places to eat on the Rigi. You might eat at the restaurant at Rigi Kulm, or at a few different places at Rigi Kaltbad, for example. There are a bunch of nice places in Weggis. Nothing at the Talsation. One week after you will be there, I'll be staying for a night at the hotel Central am Se, and will be deciding which restaurant to try. You can eat at Vitznau.

The best restaurant on the Rigi is at Rigi-Kaltbad. It is the Hotel Bergsonne.

www.bergsonne.ch/

At that link, click on "Aktuell"

When you are there, it is possible but not probable that they might be open for lunch. The chef - Dorly Camps - is famous. Her husband, Herr Willy Camps, maintains a sumptuous wine cellar. The food is "Slow Food." Exquisite, but you would plan on 2 1/2 hours for a full meal...or more.

I stay there every time that I am able to. With luck, I might stay there on May 26th, arriving late in the day, although plans are not yet certain. That is a Saturday.

I have attached a stitched together panorama showing the relationship between Weggis, the Talstation, Rigi Kaltbad and the Hotel Bergsonne. Note the distance between the lake and the Talstation. Also, some nice pictures from the Bergsonne with unusual cloud patterns and sunstrikes. And, one from below the clouds of the Lake, from Weggis Talstation, I think.

Last modified on Apr 8, 2018 - 8:33 PM by Slowpoke
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