Schilthorn & Männlichen-Kleine Scheidegg combo?

  • Removed user
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    26 June 2019 at 17:03:50 #822501

    Wondering if folks can advise on whether it’s possible to visit Schilthorn and hike the Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg trail in one day? Our base is Grindelwald for 2 nights/3 days, and I’m aware that with the cable car is down between Grindelwald and Mannlichen this summer due to construction (we are going at the end of August 2019). We are hoping to leverage the Swiss Travel Pass, when possible.

    We decided to skip Jungfraujoch during our stay in the Jungfrau region. I know some would argue that it’s a “can’t miss” but we determined the pros and cons, and decided to leave it out of our itinerary. In addition, the cost to go up to Jungfraujoch plays a big part our decision.

    Wondering if folks can advise on whether it’s possible to visit Schilthorn and hike the Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg trail in one day – specifically:

    1. From Grindelwald -> Zweiluchinen change trains to Lauterbrunnen -> take bus to Stechelberg and then cable car to Schilthorn
    2. Cable car from Schilthorn from Grütschalp to Lauterbrunnen – then explore Lauterbrunnen for a bit (have some lunch and visit Staubbach waterfall) – then take the train from Lauterbrunnen to Wengen
    3. Wengen–> Männlichen via cableway, then quick hike (via the Royal Walk)
    4. From Mannlichen, do the Panorama Trail Hike to Kleine Scheidegg
    5. Train from Kleine Scheidegg to Grindelwald

    We will already be doing Grindelwald First and hiking Lake Bachalpsee the day before. Obviously, a lot of this depends on the weather but wondering if the above combo is possible, as I know many combine Jungfraujoch +Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg hike into one day.

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    Slowpoke
    Participant
    7567 posts
    26 June 2019 at 20:09:05 #916207

    Hi Toodaliu –

    Welcome to My Swiss Alps –

    Thanks for letting us know your travel dates.

    <<“We decided to skip Jungfraujoch during our stay in the Jungfrau region. I know some would argue that it’s a “can’t miss.” “>>

    I have been choosing to miss it for 39 years. So, there are two of us, at least. 😉 I personally think there are better things to do with my time and money.

    <<” Wondering if folks can advise on whether it’s possible to visit Schilthorn and hike the Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg trail in one day – “>>

    Definitely. Good idea. I guess the Royal Walk goes up to Männlichen Gipfel? The fancy names have not yet registered in my memory banks.

    For me, the walk M->KS is “The Grannies Walk.” 😉

    http://www.myswissalps.com/hi king/maennlichen-kleinescheidegg

    See attached.

    Slowpoke

    Removed user
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    72625 posts
    26 June 2019 at 20:25:11 #916208

    @Slowpoke – good to know I’m not alone in skipping Jungfraujoch ! And thank you for the pictures for Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg and confirming that the suggested route is do-able in a day.

    I knew the Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg hike was considered “easy to moderate” – but I guess most avid hikers would consider it “easy” if you’re calling it “The Grannies Walk” 🙂

    If you have any suggestions for alternative hikes that are moderate to hard in the area, but still in the surrounding Lauterbrunnen / Wengen / Grindelwald area, let me know! Or if you know of any great websites. I’ve failed to find a user-friendly website that rates hikes by intensity. The ones that I’ve found typically just lists the “easy” hikes or the most common trails that most tourists do. We’ll be taking our hiking boots and hoping to get at least one good hike in. I believe hiking Lake Bachalpsee the day before will also be a relatively easy hike (from my research).

    However – one thing is clear from my research = the views are amazing from the Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg hike !

    rockoyster
    Participant
    8889 posts
    26 June 2019 at 21:49:50 #916209

    I’m aware that with the cable car is down between Grindelwald and Mannlichen this summer due to construction

    A replacement bus service commenced operation on 22 June if that’s any help.

    Slowpoke
    Participant
    7567 posts
    27 June 2019 at 0:10:07 #916210

    Hi Toodaliu –

    <<“I knew the Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg hike was considered “easy to

    moderate” – but I guess most avid hikers would consider it “easy” if

    you’re calling it “The Grannies Walk” :)”>>

    An avid hiker would consider it very easy. If the hiker is an avid photographer, they would allow about 50% to 100% overage on time to complete. It is spectacular….on a clear day. A uniique combination of excellence and easiness.

    Swiss Grannies do it the wrong way, (KS-Wengen) , uphill , at double time in their boots, with 2 Spazierstocks (hiking staffs). They don’t break a sweat.

    If you are a serious hiker, you will ignore imprecise descriptive ratings and look at this superb topo map…originally of military origin:

    map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=swisstopo&lang=e n&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo .pixelkarte-farbe&catalogNodes=139 2,1538,1396,1430,1436& layers=ch.swisstopo.sw isstlm3d-wanderwege&E=2637592.2 9&N=1162694.58&zoom=7

    This explains the color coding:

    http://www.schweizmobil.ch/en /hiking-in-switzerland/more-wl/hiking-trail-network-and-signalization.html

    Overall link for the excellent Switzerland Mobilty website, which can…with some work…get you to altitude profiles and all kinds of information for the named routes:

    http://www.schweizmobil.ch/en /hiking-in-switzerland.html

    For example:

    http://www.schweizmobil.ch/en /hiking-in-switzerland/route/etap pe-01560.html

    images0.schweizmobil.c h/files/wl_1.11.pdf

    Slowpoke

    Arno
    Moderator
    15471 posts
    27 June 2019 at 6:51:25 #916211

    Hi Toodaliu,

    To hike to the Bachalpsee/Bachsee (see means lake) can be found here: http://www.myswissalps.com/hi king/bachsee. More about the villages and things to do in the region is here: http://www.myswissalps.com/ju ngfrauregion.

    Mark
    Participant
    794 posts
    27 June 2019 at 12:21:33 #916212

    Hi Toodaliu

    If you are looking for some other easy hikes close to Grindelwald I would suggest First to Grosse Scheidegg. It is a very different perspective than the route to Bachalpsee.It is mostly level and takes about1.5 hrs.From GS a bus will take you back to Grindelwald. Also the trail from Kleine Scheidegg to Wengernalp is easy and downhill with a very close up view of Jungfrau on the left.

    Mark

    Slowpoke
    Participant
    7567 posts
    27 June 2019 at 13:57:21 #916213

    Hi Mark –

    I think Toodaliu wants walks that are harder.

    <<“If you have any suggestions for alternative hikes that are moderate to hard in the area, but still in the surrounding Lauterbrunnen / Wengen / Grindelwald area, let me know!”>>

    How about Schynige Platte to First?

    Slowpoke

    Removed user
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    72625 posts
    27 June 2019 at 14:33:36 #916214

    Thanks for all the hiking resources, guys ! We were already planning to do the hike from Grindewald First to Bachalpsee (sticking to light activities for day 1, in preparation for a full day of activities & hiking for day 2). I’ve heard some pros + cons to the Bachalpsee hike…many said it wasn’t much of a hike but rather a stroll and the views aren’t really anything special/different after the first 20 minutes of the hike. However, I’ve read more pros than cons…so I think we may still do the hike (or stroll?)! Our itinerary is:

    • Day 1: Arrive in Grindewald, settle into our hotel, light hike from Grindelwald First to Bachalpsee (and back), and maybe do one of the Grindelwald First activities like mountain carting.
    • Day 2: Visit Schilthorn (weather permitting), explore Lauterbrunnen, and a hike (unsure which one still…)
    • Day 3: Leave for Zermatt

    First to Grosse Scheidegg might be a bit too easy for our Day 2 hike. Schynige Platte to First might be do-able but I believe it’s a 6 hr hike: http://www.myswissalps.com/hi king/first-schynigeplatte

    I’m wondering if we’ll have enough time if we’re trying to fit Schilthorn & Lauterbrunnen by lunch time? This is my main concern. I’m assuming there will be enough sunlight but on the chance that we are tired, I’m assuming we can’t just hop onto a cable car. The info on the First to Schynige Platte hike suggests a full day hike? Unless the terrain is different or easier if you’re going from Schynige Platte to First.

    I guess our backup plan is to do Männlichen -Kleine Scheidegg hike if we want to stick to a light hike. Or possible do Wengen to the Kleine Scheidegg: http://www.myswissalps.com/hi king/wengen-kleinescheidegg

    Also – not sure if it helps but we’re used to rocky terrain in New England (hiking mountains in Vermont and NH) – so we’re used to steeper inclines during shorter amounts of time, which I realized isn’t typical of Alpine terrain. So I think our hiking abilities will allow us to do a moderate to difficult hike?

    Mark
    Participant
    794 posts
    27 June 2019 at 17:05:38 #916215

    Sorry I misread your post. If you want some more difficult hikes I would consider The Eiger trail from Eigergletscher to Alpiglen (downhill) or the reverse direction if you want something harder.

    First to Faulhorn and back is challenging. Also First to Bussalp and return by bus (3 hours hiking if you go by Feld) but you would need to change day 1 hike as both of these start with First to Bachalpsee.

    If you do First to Schynige Platte ( downhill)or the reverse I would not try to do anything else. Besides being difficult, logistically I think you will run out of time before the last cog train leaves SP or the cable car stops at First.

    All in all, if you plan to visit Schilthorn and Lauterbrunnen in the morning I think the Eiger trail is the only moderate trail that is practical that I can think of other than the one you mentioned Wengen to KS (note it is steeply up hill and in my opinion only scenic from Wengernalp to KS)

    Mark

    Slowpoke
    Participant
    7567 posts
    27 June 2019 at 19:07:45 #916216

    Hi Toodaliu –

    I hake does not have to be strenuous to be enjoyable. Actually, much of the hiking in the Jungfrau region will be enough different from New England to be worthwhile. Remember, a lot are above the tree line and the mountain views are great.

    Without demeaning the hikes that have been discussed, the Männlichen to KS hike is in a class by itself, because of the Eiger. Even more so if you know the history of the North Face and climbing there. There is a distinct psychological effect as you walk the trail and the rather grim North Face begins to tower over you.

    I don’t understand why you think you cannot fit Schilthorn, and that hike in the same day (weather permitting.) That was your original request. It is Switzerland, and there are plenty of places to eat.

    You can consider Schilthorn itself, Mürren, Winteregg, Stechelberg, Lauterbrunnen, Wengen ( nice views from the terrace of the Silberhorn), Männlichen itself, possibly even Kleine Scheidegg. Or, some sandwiches in your rucksack.

    <<“I’m assuming we can’t just hop onto a cable car. “>> Not clear what that means. Although they do not run really late in the day, they run frequently. Where in particular would you be concerned?

    Timing –

    Leave Grindelwald at 0819. Arrive Mürren at 0928.

    Leave Mürren at 0940, arrive Schilthorn 0957. Spend an hour.

    Descend to Lauterbrunnen – depart 1103 ( or, 1033 if you want to rush) arrive LB at 1155.

    Eat there .

    Or, better , eat at Männlichen.

    Depart LB at 1207… 11 minutes available in Wengen for the 5 minute walk to theTalstation of the LSB, to make that connection in Wengen , arrive Männlichen at 1236.

    Eat lunch. One hour?

    Walk 2 hours to KS arrive at 1536. Call it 1600 for slack.

    Train KS to Grindelwald at 1603. Arrive Grindelwald at 1642.

    Those trains run every half hour until 1933.

    If you want more trail…..admittedly seriously down hill ….. you could walk the road/trail to Alpiglen and catch the train there.

    Or train up to Eigergletscher ( 5 minute ride at 1600 or 1630). Then, walk the Eiger trail across the foot of the North Face, then steeply down to Alpiglen ( tired knees, maybe). I understand thatthere is some complexity due to construction at Eigergletscher, so I can not be confident about that starting point for the eiger Trail.

    About 4 km across and then almost a km down. The horizontal part can be fairly fast…. scree, but a good if narrow trail. I did not time that one, and it would be worth a check to make sure that you don’t miss the last train down at Alpiglen at 1947. I think I would not try for it if I did not catch the 1600 train up to Eigergletscher. The last descent into Alpiglen be slow and tiring.

    I f you are in good shape for hiking at a mile and a half high, it should be a reasonable option.

    Your originally stated objective can be accomplished before 5 PM, so you have lots of slack along the way. The critical point would be to reach KS for the last train down at 1933.

    Slowpoke

    Removed user
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    72625 posts
    27 June 2019 at 19:59:22 #916217

    @Slowpoke – I apologize if there was confusion in my last message: when I noted “I’m wondering if we’ll have enough time if we’re trying to fit Schilthorn & Lauterbrunnen by lunch time?” – this was in relation to doing the Schynige Platte to First hike as well on the same day. As @Mark confirmed, Schynige Platte to First (or the reverse) is likely a whole-day hike, so I don’t think we’ll do this hike, just due to timing constraints.

    @Slowpoke – thank you for the breakdown of the timings for the day.

    I’m glad to know that we have a couple of hiking options. I believe from what you guys have told me, my key options (after Schilthorn & Lauterbrunnen) are:

    1. Männlichen -Kleine Scheidegg hike
    2. Wengen to KS hike (if we want a slightly longer and harder hike ?)
    3. Eiger trail

    I’m likely planning a bit too much. For all we know…we’ll be exhausted by the time we get to the Jungfrau region (we’re attempting to do some hiking at Mt Pilatus about two days beforehand…we’re still trying to figure out which hike is ideal – so while off topic, let me know if anyone has a specific preference).

    Thanks again for everyone’s assistance !

    Slowpoke
    Participant
    7567 posts
    27 June 2019 at 21:26:24 #916218

    Please check each of those 3 hikes, as well as Pilatus, on the topo map link that I gave you before.

    map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=swisstopo&lang=e n&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo .pixelkarte-farbe&catalogNodes=139 2,1538,1396,1430,1436& layers=ch.swisstopo.sw isstlm3d-wanderwege&E=2637592.2 9&N=1162694.58&zoom=7

    #1 gives you time for flexibility.

    #3 should best be done without trying to cram all three things into a single day, as I described., although I did show that it is at least possible in the time breakdown that I laid out.

    If you check the map, you’ll see that #2 is downhill. A descent of about 800 meters. Only hard if your knees and legs are not in shape. If they are not in shape , you will surely wish that they were by the end of that walk.ahpe., We only did it once. Views of the Jungfrau are nice, but you can’t really see down into the valley, as I recall. We have done the Grannies’ walk at least a dozen, perhaps 20 times.

    <<“@Slowpoke – thank you for the breakdown of the timings for the day.”>>

    I did that with the SBB timetable. I think that we didn’t give you the link specifically before this. You’ll find it an essential tool for navigating Switzerland:

    http://www.myswissalps.com/ti metable

    That page has some very useful, I’d say necessary, tips and tricks.

    The direct link is:

    http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.htm l

    There is a very useful SBB smartphone app accessible there. I have come to depend on it while on the road (or train).

    (By the way, my name does not have an @ sign in it.)

    Pilatus –

    I know that there are various trails around Pilatus. Some are quite steep, as this attached image shows. Check the switchbacks. I don’t know whether the yellow-marked ones (one the map) are easy….They may be smooth, but could still be very steep or have major altitude changes.

    map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=swisstopo&lang=e n&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo .pixelkarte-farbe&catalogNodes=139 2,1538,1396,1430,1436& layers=ch.swisstopo.sw isstlm3d-wanderwege&E=2660844.1 5&N=1203380.31&zoom=6

    You might want to look at the Rigi for a less rugged experience.

    http://www.myswissalps.com/ri gi

    <<“we’ll be exhausted by the time we get to the Jungfrau region (we’re

    attempting to do some hiking at Mt Pilatus about two days beforehand…”>>

    You may not be exhausted, but if you are not used to long downhill hikes with serious altitude changes, your legs will be very very sore.

    Slowpoke

    Skorky
    Participant
    8 posts
    28 June 2019 at 1:37:42 #916219

    Hi Slowpoke,

    My wife and I will be staying in Wengen for 3 nights from Sept 22 -24 of this year. We were planning to visit Schilthorn, First, Schynige Platte and Jungfraujoch. In this post you stated”Better things to do with time and money” while discussing Jungfraujoch. What would you suggest to do instead of going to the Jungfraujoch? Thanks, Dave

    Mark
    Participant
    794 posts
    28 June 2019 at 6:56:54 #916220

    Hi Skorky

    Like Slowpoke I have visited the Jungfrau region several times and hiked many if not most of the trails. Also like Slowpoke i have never been to Jungfraujoch. I believe it is quite touristy,expensive and crowded and there are other things to do that I enjoy more.

    That being said it is popular for a reason so read about it on this website and decide for yourself.

    I think your itinerary to visit Schilthorn, First, and Schynige Platte is a good one and I would suggest exploring each of these more fully

    At Schilthorn you may consider the loop Lauterbrunnen to Grutschalp(cable car) then train to Murren then cable cars up to Schilthorn. Back down to Gimmelwald by cable car and down to Stechelberg by cable car. You can then walk through valley back to Lauterbrunnen or take the bus back.

    At First there are easy hikes( to Bachalpsee or Grosse Scheidegg). There are moderate hikes (to Bachalpsee/Waldspitz/Bort). And harder hikes(First to Faulhorn and back or First to Bussalp and bus back)

    At Schynige Platte the Panaramaweg loop is wonderful and has a fairly flat scenic trail that takes about 2-2.5 hrs.

    If you visit First and do an easy hike you should have time to do the walk from Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg which is 1.45 hrs and shouldn’t be missed.

    Mark

    Mark
    Participant
    794 posts
    28 June 2019 at 7:28:12 #916221

    Hi Toodaliu

    Since you are reasonably avid hikers I would consider this itinerary. It would include the 2 most spectacular and scenic hikes i have done

    Day 1. Mannlichen to KS. As Slowpoke says its not to be missed and an easy convenient hike for arrival day

    Day 2. First to Schynige Platte. Also convenient. You will pass by Bachalpsee on this hike. At the end on the SP leg be sure and take the Panaramaweg option. There will be Mountain View’s on the left and Interlaken lakes on your right You walk along a cliff edge and in my opinion the most spectacular views in the region.

    Day 3. Choose to visit Schilthorn and Lauterbrunnen valley and/or the Eiger trail.

    This itinerary will give you very different aspects and views of the area.

    Mark

    Slowpoke
    Participant
    7567 posts
    28 June 2019 at 8:30:06 #916222

    Ooops…

    I got it backwards:

    <<“If you check the map, you’ll see that #2 is downhill. A descent of about 800 meters.”>>

    It is uphill. That is a lot easier on the knees.

    There are two intermediate train stops, at Allmend and Wengwald, if for some reason you do not wish to do the whole climb:

    map.search.ch/?pos=639985,159464&z=64 &poi=zug

    No altitudes on that map.

    Sorry for the confusion. My comments about the hike, otherwise, still apply.

    I think that Mark has laid out a very good set of hikes in his post.

    <<“Since you are reasonably avid hikers I would consider this itinerary. It would include the 2 most spectacular and scenic hikes i have done

    Day 1. Männlichen to KS. As Slowpoke says its not to be missed and an easy convenient hike for arrival day

    Day 2. First to Schynige Platte. Also convenient. You will pass by Bachalpsee on this hike. At the end on the SP leg be sure and take the Panoramaweg option. There will be Mountain View’s on the left and Interlaken lakes on your right You walk along a cliff edge and in my opinion the most spectacular views in the region.

    Day 3. Choose to visit Schilthorn and Lauterbrunnen valley and/or the Eiger trail”>>

    Day 3 notes the option of a walk on the valley floor if you want to do it. You could include the Trümmelbach Falls as well, depending on timing and your inetrest.

    Slowpoke

    Slowpoke
    Participant
    7567 posts
    28 June 2019 at 9:03:16 #916223

    Hi Skorky –

    Mark has given an excellent answer to your question. He wrote what I would have written.

    Not included in your list, but, I’d definitely make the walk from Männlichen to Kleine Scheidegg, in that direction, as discussed elsewhere in this thread. A side trip up to Männlichen Gipfel is worthwhile while you are at Männlichen. They now have a viewing platform up there at the peak (der Gipfel) . I wish that they had not added it.

    The first image attached was taken on a date in late September 2009….I think it was the 22nd. Also #2725. I took my daughter and Granddaughter to Switzerland that year.

    You can see Fall colors in many of those images. September is the right time to go there.

    Slowpoke

    Removed user
    Participant
    72625 posts
    28 June 2019 at 13:57:48 #916224

    Thanks for all the great advice, Mark and Slowpoke !

    Now I wished I left more time for the Jungfrau region – but this just means I’ll need to come back and explore more trails !

    Unfortunately, as we’ll be arriving to Grindelwald from Lucerne on Day 1, the earliest I think we’ll arrive to the area is noon time. Similarly, for Day 3 – we won’t have a full day as we’ll likely be leaving for Zermatt around noon time. I haven’t looked at train times yet, but with hotel check-in/out times to consider and also the length of train trips (I believe Lucerne to Grindelwald is almost 3 hrs and Grindelwald to Zermatt is about 3 hrs) – I’m not sure we’ll have time to do everything you guys suggested.

    While I think we’re indifferent on visiting Schilthorn (it’s not a *must* for this trip but would be a great addition) – I believe my husband really wants to visit Lauterbrunnen. Building off of Mark’s suggested itinerary:

    Day 1. Lauterbrunnen then Männlichen to KS (detour to Männlichen Gipfel if time permits?)

    Day 2. First to Schynige Platte

    Day 3. Leave for Zermatt

    I know there are many activities that can be done at First (such as mountain carting or First Cliff Walk by Tissot) – which I’m assuming we wouldn’t be able to do on Day 2, unless we do this before we start on our hike to Schynige Platte? I believe these activities are right near the First gondola station?

    Slowpoke
    Participant
    7567 posts
    28 June 2019 at 14:38:08 #916225

    Hi Toodaliu-

    That all seems reasonable.

    Here is a suggestion for your arrival.

    Lauterbrunnen station has a left luggage office open from 0700 to 1800 seven days a week.

    Also, some good sized lockers:

    http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/railway-stations/further-stations/station.7384. lauterbrunnen.html

    Go directly there, dump your bags, look around LB ( it won’t take long, in my opinion unless you decide to check out Trümmelbach Falls) , go up to Wengen, realize that it is nicer than Grindelwald ;-), take the cable car up to Männlichen. Walk to KS. Train back to LB. Get luggage. Trains to Grindelwald.

    I h0pe your place is near the station; the town is spread out . Although, there is a bus service through the town.

    Slowpoke

    Removed user
    Participant
    72625 posts
    28 June 2019 at 15:23:36 #916226

    Great alternative. Thanks Slowpoke ! I love the convenience of luggage offices or luggage lockers – especially for travelers like my husband and I who pack pretty light 🙂

    And yes, our hotel in Grindelwald is about a 5 min walk from the main station, so it won’t be much of an issue.

    Thanks for everyone’s help !

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