Travel hub for Titlis,Pilatus,Rothorn & Jungfrau

I wish to see Titlis, Pilatus, Brienzer-Rothorn and Jungfraujoch, using maximum mountain trains/cable cars/cog wheel trains, etc. I wish to stay at one hub and travel to these destinations. Which would be the most suitable place, considering the time, distances and convenient connections involved. I will have a Swiss Travel pass and could do more than one place a day even though it may involve extra travelling/ repeating some journey legs.

Hi Sartajsasson -

Most people would use two hubs, probably Luzern and Interlaken.

However, if you definitely wish to use one hub, Brienz could be a good fit. So would Meiringen.

Both have interesting tourist activities of their own.

Stans is also worth a look. It puts you close to the route to Titlis. Not a major site for sites for tourists, but there are one or two..

Towns on the Brunig Pass between Meiringen and Stans are less interesting for tourists in their own right, but could be considered for a place to sleep. Sarnen is probably the largest

map.search.ch/?x=2808m&y=1296m&z=8

Hope that helps.

Slowpoke

Thank you for your suggestions. However I want to check the connectivity of Meringen and Stans and also Sachseln and Giswil before I decide. Is there any website where I can check all the trains that stop at a train station?

The reason I want to pick a hub is that it will give me the flexibility to choose between Titlis, Pilatus and Jungfraujoch in case of bad weather.

Thank you

Hi Sartajsasson,

All public transport schedules and instructions are here: www.myswissalps.com/ti metable.

a) Hi Satajsasson -

Annika has given you the answer.

The timetable will let you do what you said you wish to do. You probably have to check a few different times and locations, but you can add trains/journeys to the original 4 that the computer returns at your first request. Use the "earlier" and "later" options.

If you have any problem using it, let us know.

Although it is small consolation for you, the printed version of the timetable, which unfortunately is not an option for you, does show exactly what you seek. It shows all trains through a given station, no matter what the destination. It is a book about 5 cm thick....and not convenient to carry. Providing the data in a computerized system altered the way the data are displayed. Works great if you know where you want to go. ;-)

<<"connectivity of Meringen and Stans and also Sachseln and Giswil before ">>

Service across the Brunig is once per hour (in each direction) . That means that staying at one of the smaller intermediate stops such as Sachseln and Giswil has some possible inconveniences. It also limits your flexibility, because it takes a while to get to the Jungfrau from the Luzern area (or vice versa) , and quick response to good weather up on the Jungfrau is hindered. That crossing of the brunig is a nice scenic trip, but it is a bit of a barrier ( time wise) for having a single base for your destinations.

The correct spelling is Meiringen....

If I were doing it, I'd use Meiringen or Brienz, preferably Brienz. That is because my highest priority would be the Jungfrau and the surrounding region, with Pilatus and Titlis secondary. Personally, I'd put the Brienzer Rothorn high on the list, also.

The Hotel Weisses Kreuz in Brienz , right by the station for the Brienzer Rothorn Bahn, and across the street from the pier and main station, used to be the absolute first choice, and we stayed there many times. Unfortunately, it cost them too much to maintain their high standards, and they have changed management a couple of times. One set was really pinching pennies. They are gone, too. When I stayed there a couple of years ago, it had been restored to a good place to stay, clean, comfortable, but no longer an outstanding kitchen. It is run by the management of the Brienzerbürli, long a good hotel, but the Brienzerbürli is further away from the stations and pier.

The Weisses Kreuz now has a less expensive "B&B" option, too., in addition to the regular rooms.

www.weisseskreuz-brienz.ch/index.php/en /

Slowpoke

Forgot to ask-

when are you going? Some times of year are not so good in the Jungfrau region as others.

And, the cograil up Pilatus only runs from mid-may onward.

Slowpoke

Hi Annika and Slowpoke.

Thank you for your inputs.

Regarding my dates, please see my other post "October weather; any snowy destinations?" of 5th April where I have given my previous plan. In a nutshell, this time, on Day-1 -3 I would travel Milan to Rhine Falls(Wilhelm Tell) and Titsee, Days 4-8 I would be visiting Brienz-Rothorn, Jungfrau, Titlis and Pilatus and travel to Montreux (VIP seats in Golden Pass),Day 9 Chillon Castle, Chocolate/Cheese trains and Martigny (may require an extra day?), Day 10 to Zermatt (Lavaux-Simplon-Centovalli) to visit Gornergrat and the glacier, day 11 Zermatt -Chur/St Moritz (Glacier Express), Day 12 St Moritz -Lugano (Bernina). Can you give me suggestions to add value to my trip since I would go on a second class 15 day Swiss Travel Pass? As you can see, I am fascinated by historic/scenic train travel and mountain excursions and white snow clad areas.

Wiesses Krieuz B&B is an excellent suggestion. Thanks. At Sachseln also I have found a 400 year old listed house with an excellent view which I am attracted by.

As for the printed timetable, can we download relevant extracts from it?

Looking forward to suggestions from you experts to add more substance to my itinerary.

Thanks

Sartaj

Hi Sartaj -

<<"At Sachseln also I have found a 400 year old listed house with an excellent view which I am attracted by. ">>

I have a friend who lives in Sachseln. What is the name of the place you have found? Perhaps he can comment on it.

<<"As for the printed timetable, can we download relevant extracts from it?">>

I don't know how to do that. If you want to buy one once you get there, you can get a set of three books, total thickness about 15 CM, for 14 (maybe it is now 16) CHF at the rail stations. Most people no longer get them, due to on-line availability, so when I buy mine at Zürich main station, they have to go look in a back room to find them for me. ;-) Don't know if the smaller stations still have them.

Then, I have the problem of carrying them and getting them back to the USA. It makes my arms stronger. ;-)

I really like them for the same reason you have noted...they are great for trip planning, because you get a lot of data on on each page.

Many hotels still keep a set at the front desk, but fewer do that each year. Two of the books (the yellow ones) give all the bus schedules. The other, the blue one, gives all the train, boat and cable car schedules for any public transport. If you only want the blue one, it is the same prices as for all three.

And, at many of the stations - especially the larger ones in each region- there are small pamphlets distributed for free which essentially are copies from the full time table for the statiopns in the region.

None of those help before your trip, but might be useful once you are there. Of course, the regular on-line timetable is available in a Smartphone version.

Slowpoke

Hi Sartaj-

I have not analyzed your trip step by step, but i can comment that you are sure doing a lot of traveling, which, off hand, "feels" to me like you won't have much time at various places. However, as you said -

<<"As you can see, I am fascinated by historic/scenic train travel and mountain excursions and white snow clad areas.">>

If I were trying to find time in that itinerary, I'd leave out the Rhine Falls. It does not provide snowy mountains or historic train travel, and my personal opinion is that the mountain areas are more rewarding. Many do not agree with my opinion; it is purely my own perspective.I'd try to have more time in the Jungfrau region.

<""Wiesses Krieuz B&B is an excellent suggestion.">>

Weisses Kreuz is the correct spelling, meaning of course "white cross" which is not an uncommon name for hotels in Switzerland. In October, the hotels will not be full, so you can be flexible about hotels.

And, October is a great time to visit, although toward the end of the month, the weather may be changing and the days getting shorter. My preferences are September, May(but not in the Alps where it is not yet Spring) and October, tied with June.

Slowpoke

>> However I want to check the connectivity of Meringen and Stans and also Sachseln and Giswil before I decide. Is there any website where I can check all the trains that stop at a train station?

Hi sartajsasson,

You can check the departures from any given station at the following page.

http://fahrplan.sbb.ch /bin/stboard.exe/en&HW AI=JS!ajax=yes!&

I have done a sample search to illustrate what information you can get, and attached it as a PDF. My query input data was:

Stop/Station: Meiringen

Date: All journeys from 07.05.16 up to 12.05.16

Time: 07:00

Travel with: Only trains

I left "Destination" and "Journey filter" blank

Number of results: 50 journeys

I left "Stations near" as it was

Then I clicked "Show".

Hope this is useful.

Alpenrose

>> As for the printed timetable, can we download relevant extracts from it?

Yes, you can. There are quite a number of options for downloading timetable information in PDF format. Most of them are probably “overkill” for your particular purposes, but the information might be useful for someone else.

For anyone not familiar with the Swiss transport network, and where places are in relation to each other, it will probably be quicker to use the online timetable to check frequency of service and travel times. That said, here are some other options:

Create a personal timetable

You can create a personal timetable, which will be available for download as a PDF or sent to you in an email within a few minutes.

timetable.sbb.ch/bin/q uery-p2w.exe/en

PDF extracts from the Official Timetable

You can download PDF extracts from the Official Timetable by searching for locality or table number at the following page:

www.fahrplanfelder.ch/ en/search-for.html

Alternatively, you can browse localities alphabetically from this page:

www.fahrplanfelder.ch/ en/list-of-localities.html

It will be helpful in reading the timetable to refer to the documents called How to read the timetable and Explanation of symbols. These are in English as well as the four official languages of Switzerland, and can be downloaded from this page:

www.fahrplanfelder.ch/ en/explanations.html

Departure posters and pocket timetables (not available for all stations)

Departure posters are in single-page format like the ones you see on railway platform notice boards and print in A4 size – not sure how readable that would be, but viewing on-screen works well because you can adjust it to a suitable resolution.

The pocket timetables are colour brochures, and are in the main language/s of the locality, so probably not useful if you can’t read German, French or Italian. They can run to hundreds of pages, so check that before deciding to print one out!

www.sbb.ch/en/timetabl e/printed-timetables/taschenfahr plaene.html

Then of course, there is the page I referred to in my previous post in this thread, which enables you to create a customised list of arrivals and/or departures from a particular stop or station.

But as I mentioned at the start of this post, for most people the best option will be to use the interactive online timetable!

Alpenrose

Thank you, Slowpoke and Alpenrose.. I got what I wanted .....and more.

Hi Alpenrose-

Thank you very much.

I frequently learn from this forum, and your posts are good examples.

As the eclectic Swiss have been known to say;

"Merci vielmals."

Slowpoke

Hi Sartaj-

<<"I got what I wanted .....and more.">>

Still more -

;-)

Attached is a scan of two pages (pp 684-685) from the printed timetable . It has approximately 2200 pages.. The small free pamphlets handed out at stations look like this, in very small print. They show trips by train number from/near the key stations(s) in an area.

The data in the Kursbuch ( timetable book) are organized by numbered train routes. A map in the book shows all numbered routes, and you look for your city, then see which train routes go through it, by number.. You then turn to the route number, in this case #470.

You can also look up a station, such as Sachseln in the index at the front of the book. It will direct you to pages for one or more than one train number. Since this is Switzerland, the altitude is also given for each station. ;-)

Sachseln is simple...only one train number. For each train number, you can find pages like the one I have scanned. In contrast, many route(train) numbers go through Zürich

A set of pages show all trains that go in one direction, and another set shows the return direction. For direction Luzern to Interlaken, there are 9 half pages like the 4 that show in the scan.

Service across the Brunig is limited... approx. once per hour. There are more local trains between Luzern and Sachseln and also between Meiringen and Interlaken at more frequent intervals, particularly at commuter hours in the AM and PM.

That helps choose where you stay, because you want to have frequent service to the end point (such as Luzern or Interlaken ) in at least one direction.

Hope you can read the scan.

Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke and Alpenrose,

You people are very generous. You have given me so many options now.

As a layman, I have done like this:

Type swiss rail printed time table 2016 in google search and clicked on www.sbb.ch/en/timetabl e/printed-timetables/official-timetable.html

click on download

click on route timetables

enter name of station, example sachseln, and click on search

I get a result like this:

Field No. place line

470 Sachseln Lucerne - Brünig - Interlaken

3500 Sachseln Sarnersee

9608 Sachseln Lucerne - Sarnen - Sachseln - Giswil - Lungern (Night Star Line N8)

60,351 Sachseln (Sarnen) Sachseln Flüeli-Ranft (line 351) (Flüeli-Ranft Route)

Now if I click on 470 I am taken to page 683 of the time table

3500 takes me to page 1893 of the time table

60,350 takes me to page 2231, and so on.

I can then browse or download what I want.

Does it mean only these trains are stopping at Sachseln? If so then I find this convenient as it gives me the answers to "which trains are stopping at Sachseln" and their full run.

So I think we are good. Merci vielmals. Will surely call for more help when needed.

You've got it.470 is the train.

The 60.315 is a bus.

Flüeli Ranft is worth a visit if you are interested in Swiss history.

It is a pilgrimage site.

9608 is a night time service. Probably a train, according to the timetable. Might be a bus, but there is no symbol for a bus. Runs at 0150 and 0230. Some kind of special ticket is required.

3500 might be a shuttle bus of some sort. Although, with a number in the 3000 or 2000 series, it would ordinarily be a lake boat. I looked it up...it is in the Lake Boat section but does not have a "boat" symbol. I guess it is a bus.

Slowpoke

Hello Alpenrose,

Thank you for that weblink to the timetable - I have added the link to my favourites for quick access. It will be useful as I have been reading the book recommended in the forum called "Switzerland without a Car" and the author refers to the routes he describes using the route numbers from the timetable so the quickest way to find out how to follow some of the less well known ones will be to use your link. My laptop goes on holiday to Switzerland with me and I use it in the evenings to plan next day checking weather forecasts and timetables and my list of possible excursions!

My travel passes arrived in the post today so our holiday feels closer and anticipation grows!

Maggie

>> Does it mean only these trains are stopping at Sachseln? If so then I find this convenient as it gives me the answers to "which trains are stopping at Sachseln" and their full run.

No, it doesn't ;-)

Reading the information in the timetable shows that 3500 is a boat on the Sarnersee, that runs between 2 April and 30 October, but only in the afternoons (nur am Nachmittag) in April, May, September and October. It leaves from the Schiffstation (wharf), not the railway station ;-) For the 9:15 and 18:10 services you have to make a telephone booking in advance (Verkehrt auf telefonische Voranmeldung), and if the weather is poor, it runs only on demand (Verkehrt bei schlechter Witterung auf Anfrage).

9608 is a night bus, and there are a number of symbols you would need to look up to understand just what the features of this service are, which include stops where you can only get out, not in, and that it doesn't run every day. It also says that a special ticket is necessary (Besondere Fahrschein oder Zuschlag erforderlich).

60.351 is a bus that travels between Sarnen, Bahnhof (Sarnen railway station bus stop) and Flüeli-Ranft, Dorf (a bus stop in Flüeli-Ranft called "Dorf", which means "village"). If you want to go somewhere beyond Flüeli-Dorf, you will need to look for another connection.

As an example, assume you want to leave Sachseln Bahnhof at 8:32 on this bus. That shows you arriving at Flüeli-Ranft, Dorf at 8:44. How would you get to somewhere else, e.g. Luzern from there?

If you look up in the interactive online timetable how to get to Luzern from Flüeli-Ranft Dorf at 8:44 it will tell you to catch a bus at 9:14 (obviously a wait of 30 minutes) and go back to Sachseln (where you have just come from) and catch a train. So it would have made no sense at all to get that bus in the first place if you wanted to go to Luzern.

These examples show that just using the timetable itself, when you are not familiar with the transport system or reading the timetable, can present a few challenges. You would get much better information by using the journey-planning features of the interactive online timetable.

When using the "printed" timetable, it's also important to read the "small print", as well as the stop numbers and times. The document called Explanation of symbols (that I linked to in my previous post) can help with that. Using that document, you will then see that the words "Montag-Freitag ohne allg. Feiertage" means "Mondays-Fridays, except public holidays". So the 60.351 bus does not run on weekends, which is important to know.

If you are just wanting to find out what trains depart from a particular station, my first post above illustrates how to do that. But when it comes to planning an actual journey, I would strongly recommend planning the journey using the interactive online timetable to avoid any unexpected surprises that might ruin your day because you didn't fully understand the features and/or limitations of a particular mode of transport or time of departure :-)

Hope this helps!

Alpenrose

>> As you can see, I am fascinated by historic/scenic train travel and mountain excursions and white snow clad areas.

Have you heard of the Furka Steam Railway? It probably won't be an option for you during your coming trip, as the only dates in October that it runs are Saturday and Sunday the 1st and 2nd of October. However, it is not covered by the Swiss Travel Pass, not even for a reduction. If you are planning another trip in the future, perhaps it might interest you.

www.myswitzerland.com/ en-au/full-steam-ahead-on-the-furka-pass.html

Alpenrose

Thanks Alpenrose, for your indepth reply and proving the old adage that half knowledge is more dangerous than ignorance. Will stick to the online time table.

I have seen your remarks about the Furka steam train and also the link. Sounds interesting. If possible this time then fine otherwise I have to forget about it as I can't afford "next time" to Switzerland. As it is I lost out quite a bit on cancelling my April 4-april 12 trip. The 8 day online Swiss travel pass, for example, cost me CHF 726 and I got back only CHF 520 after cancellation.

As you must have read in my earlier post my plan is only for 12 days but I will be buying the 15 day travel pass. Any suggestions for the 3 extra days? Is the Gotthard tunnel visitable.......the engineering marvel that it is.

Thanx

Sartaj