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Hello,
We plan to travel in Switzerland in the first 2 weeks of September, and we’d rather not be crowded train cars. So we think buying a 1st Class Swiss Travel pass might be worth the added expense. However, it appears to me that most of our travel might be on conveyances without 1st class seating. I’m hoping someone here can help me figure that out.
We will travel from Bellinzona to Arth-Goldau, to take the conveyance up to Mt Rigi, and then back down again to take the train from Arth-Goldau to St. Gallen. From there we will take a train to the western shore of Lake Constance, and a boat to the east shore.
We will take the boat back again to the east shore of Lake Constance, then the train to Rapperswil, where we will then take the boat to Zurich.
From Zurich we go to Vevey, and from there to Domodossola.
I realize that some of these legs are not long in terms of time, but I am wondering if many of them are on commuter-type trains with no 1st class seating.
Also, any tips or advice people have to give regarding this itinerary I would be very grateful to have. I realize we will be traveling in a busy season, but we do not want to be traveling on jam-packed trains or waiting on long lines. If this itinerary is unrealistic, we’ll change it.
Thanks!
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September is not the peak tourist season, in fact trains are more likely to be busy if you travel at work commuter times at any point as the working season will be back in full swing by then.
In any case Swiss trains very seldom have no seats available – even on the busiest trains.
Itinerary is absolutely fine. Plenty of main line and inter-city trains on your itinerary – all will have first class.
Only the Rigi railway and Bodensee (Lake Konstanz) ships have no 1st class. Soem Zurichsee boast are 2nd class only but not the long distance Rapperswil – Zurich ones
I’m surprised you call some of your journeys ‘short’ as I thought the exact opposite when reading your itinerary – some of your planned journeys are long by Swiss standards! I always travel first class and had much shorter legs on my trip a few weeks ago, but even a 15 minute journey in 1st class is better than 2nd
Thank you very much! The entire trip is spread over 11 days, and while I will double check how much time I am spending any given day continuously in transit, I think I’ve kept it under no more than 3 hours at a stretch. (For instance, I will break up the journey from Zurich to Vevey with a lunch in Morges.) I’m also thinking that most of the longer days of travel will be scenic (weather permitting.
So we will indulge ourselves with a 1st class pass, which will also cover us for a few museums.
Thanks again!
Hi constance and welcome to MySwissAlps!
You can buy your Swiss Travel Pass online here and print it out at home for convenience (no waiting in office lines in Switzerland and you have a back up copy in case you lose your pass). https://www.myswissalp s.com/swisstravelpass/ price
You can read about the differences between 1st and 2nd class here if you like: https://www.myswissalp s.com/train/practical/ 2nd1stclass
I’ve never traveled first class on a train before but I imagine you’ll enjoy the peace & quiet! Some days you can be the only people in the entire carriage.
To check train schedules look here: https://www.myswissalp s.com/timetable – avoid commuter times and note the “capacity” column for your train and avoid trains that show 3 red figures as they are expected to be very busy (rare, if not impossible in 1st class though).
Happy Travels!
`Thank you! We are hermits at heart and are trying to plan a very tranquil vacation with beautiful views, so being transported through Switzerland in silence and comfort sounds lovely.
We also plan to enjoy long breakfasts, and maybe sometimes sleep in, so I think we will miss the commuter peak times, but thanks for the tip on reading the schedules.
It has been my husband’s long time desire to visit Lake Constance and also have a look at the city of Zurich. I’m getting my wish to visit St Gallen and Charlie Chaplin’s house, and to follow a bit JMW Turner’s footsteps to see Mt Rigi.
Thanks again!
If you get chance to visit the Ebenalp from St. Gallen (if you overnight) you should. 🙂
https://www.myswissalp s.com/forum/topic/eben alp-appenzell-from-zurich-day-trip
Happy Travels!
<<“It has been my husband’s long time desire to visit Lake Constance “>>
Don’t miss:
http://www.zeppelin-museum.de/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Zeppelin_Museum_Friedr ichshafen
Neither link shows the exhibits that justify the visit. Worth a detour.
Slowpoke
Hi Constance –
If you can afford it, first class is definitely more comfortable. If it is only not getting a seat that worries you, Lucas’ answer is spot on. Always seats avaialble except sometimes at rush hour near the big larger cities.
Slowpoke
PS –
<<“realize that some of these legs are not long in terms of time, but I am
wondering if many of them are on commuter-type trains with no 1st class
seating.”>>
No, they are not. And even the commuter trains and S-bahnen have first class.. Cableways and cograils on the Rigi have no first class.
There is a small surcharge in the boats on Lake Zürich, both classes, I believe.
Slowpoke
PS- I always go in the first weeks of September. Best weather on average, and the tourist rush passes away with August.
Thank you very much for your comments. I just became aware of the Zeppelin museum, and am not sure my husband is aware of it. Without his wanting to go so much, I’m not sure I ever would have picked Lake Constance as a travel destination — only because it really wasn’t on my radar. So first I need to make sure he gets to do whatever it is he’s been hoping to do on Lake Constance.
Does anyone think it would be very worthwhile, if the weather is fine, to do a bit of backtracking to include a boat trip on Lake Lucerne itself as part of visiting Mt Rigi? My initial idea was a day of travel from Bellinzona to Arth-Goldau, then straight up to the summit of Rigi to spend the night. The next day, we would descend back to Arth-Goldau and proceed onward to Lake Constance, via the Voralpen Express.
But now I am wondering if we should either
(a) go from Bellinzona to Luzern by train, take the boat to Viznau, and then up to Mt Rigi to spend the night? Next day, down the mountain to Arth-Goldau and catch the Voralpen Express to Lake Constance
or
(b) Bellinzona to Arth-Goldau to Rigi summit , but the next morning head down the mountain to Viznau and catch a boat to Luzern just to enjoy the view from the lake, and catch the Voralpen Express there.
I don’t think either of us has any interest in sightseeing in the town of Luzern itself, just experiencing the lake. It is it more optimal to go in the morning or later in the day — or should we just wait until the day before to decide, when we can look at a weather report in Bellinzona?
Or feel free to say Lake Lucerne is overrated! Even in September I would expect to find lots of tourists in the town of Luzern itself.
Hi Constance-
<<“Or feel free to say Lake Lucerne is overrated! Even in September I would
expect to find lots of tourists in the town of Luzern itself.”>>
Luzern has lots of tourists at any time of the year. It does not stop me from staying ther on occasion ( pricey, of course) and eating at a couple of my favorites along the river:
http://www.luzern.com/en/rest aurant-schiff
http://www.rathausbrauerei.ch /
Lake Lucerne ( der Vierwaldstöttersee) is underrated, especially if you have a few days to explore the environs.
Although this thread is about a hike around the southern part of the lake, there are several pictures of the lake in it:
http://www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/the-swiss-path-and-southern-lake-lucerne
You might also consider the train from Bellinzona to Flüelen and boat to Vitznau. That part of the lake is the nicest to visit by boat, in my opinion. Slower, of course, but you do seem to be willing to go through Luzern…..
Information on the Rigi:
http://www.myswissalps.com/ri gi
Although my favorite hotel on the Rigi is at Rigi Kaltbad, it is now running limited hours/days. The owners are nearing retirement. Still a fantastic wine cellar and excellent kitchen. Slow food.
It is the Hotel Bergsonne. Attached are some pictures taken from there and a few from around the lake.
Slowpoke
Attachments:Totally agree with Slowpoke – if coming from Bellinzona, getting off at Fluelen for the boat connection is a good idea, but unfortunately, because the Gotthard base tunnel fats trans don’t stop at Fluelen you have to do it the slow way via the old mountain route on a local unit train and change trains at Erstfeld.
I never tire of going on the Vierwaldstättersee (let’s give it its proper name) lake boats – particularly the paddle steamers.
Sorry – it’s a myth that 1st class will be totally quiet and you will be the only ones in it.
I travel 1st class most of the time in Switzerland and it can often be busy, because there are fewer first class seats per train and because many senior age Swiss people travel 1st class.
Fair enough! I’ve never tried 1st class so I defer to you. But whenever I look at the compartments they are quite empty. 🙂
Perhaps I’m going at the wrong? / right? times. Or it is because I leave from Zurich usually and the train is often empty when I board there. I always wonder why (on some trains) there are 3 carriages of 1st class trains when the amount of people in there (that I see) could only fill 1/2 of one carriage. But I know the Swiss have it all planned out. 🙂
I’d be happy to travel with seniors and businessmen in 1st rather than the large groups or families with small kids in 2nd class 😉 Which seems to be especially common in the summer.
Hi Lucas –
<<“But whenever I look at the compartments they are quite empty. :)”>>
I’m only in Switzerland about 4-5 weeks per year, but my experience matches yours. And, I always have a few days in Züri on each trip.
And,in 1st class there exist some”quiet cars”..no conversations, no telephone calls, and riders who will remind you if you violate the rules.
Slowpoke
Because we usually travel during high season (July/August) and also because we like the first class upper deck on boats, we buy first class travel Passes. This year we are travelling in September but still bought first class passes because we have got used to the luxury of first class I guess and though we could have gone with second and bought upgrades to first if we wanted to, it just seemed easier if a little self-indulgent to go first class. We save money on our accommodation costs by self-catering most of the time so splashing out on the travel was our preferred option, especially as we do a lot of travelling around!
Maggie
thank you all again for these added details and suggestions. First class it is, silent if possible — and if occasionally we end up with noisy company, we’ll roll with it.
I would think we certainly have the time to take the slower train from Bellinzona to Fluelen, so would this be a workable, enjoyable plan:
Wake up in Bellinzona, have breakfast, take a train before noon to Fluelen
Take a boat from Fluelen to Vitznau, and take a conveyance to the summit of Mt Rigi to spend the night
Wake up on Mt Rigi, descend after breakfast to Arth-Goldau to take the train from there to St Gallen/Lake Constance
?
Somewhere in there we will need lunch, although I have become very good a doing a bit of food shopping in the mornings when we travel and having a great lunch on the train (or boat) if nothing else is available. Or is a better plan to pause in Vitznau for a lunch before proceeding to Mt Rigi?
Thank you very much Slowpoke for the tips about where to eat an stay in Mt Rigi. I hope our travel dates coincide with the limited hours of operation for you favorite place. I’d love to hear more about what is considered “Slow food” in Switzerland. I know what to expect when it comes to dishes when I look for Slow Food places in Italy, but what counts as “Slow Food” on Mt Rigi? Unfortunately I cannot tolerate a lot of cheese in my diet, so I’m definitely on the lookout for classic Swiss food that is an alternative to fondue.
Thanks again so much.
<<” Or is a better plan to pause in Vitznau for a lunch before proceeding to Mt Rigi?”>>
Eat on the boat. Use the first class restaurant. Younhave an hour and 48 minutes.
http://www.lakelucerne.ch/en/ timetable-fares/timetable/
The 1200, 1300, 1400 and 1500 bats have restaurants.
Timetable changes to Autumn on Sept 10. Then, only the 1200, 1300, 1400 have restaurants, not the 1500
Also, check this:
http://www.myswissalps.com/go tthardpanoramaexpress
Thee are a couple of nice hotels close to the train station in Rigi-Kaltbad. they have nice views, too. At tht time of year, they should have rooms on short notice. The Hotel Bergsonne is a bit of a steep walk up from the station.
And, if you can’t get the Bergsonne, I think that Rigi Kulm is a bettr location, or, at least, more famous.
If indeed you choose to stay there, phone from the station once you are there, and they’ll pick you up, including your luggage.
Also, if you check ahead for reservations, they might ask you to do that again when it is a week or so ahead. Although, that time of year they should be keeping regular hours. So, I’d try now and see what they say. Closed Mondays, maybe Tuesdays.
I hope to be there sometime in early September, myself. Date not defined yet.
Slowpoke
Once again, Slowpoke, many thanks for those details and schedules. We are lazy, slowpoke-in-the-morning travelers, so timing our journey to lunch on the boat sounds divine. Despite our laziness, we really don’t mind stairs and uphill climbs toting luggage. We’ve learned to pack extremely light, especially for train-centered road trips like this, so thanks for the heads up but we’re luckily not hampered physically from picking hotels that require some exertion.
I will definitely check out your lodging recommendations and follow your other instructions. For us, choosing a hotel often centers less on views than issues about allergies (not too much old fashioned upholstery),wi-fi reliability and quiet. I’m assuming that if my actual hotel room doesn’t have a view that I don’t need to walk very far to find a bench where I can enjoy the view. Please set me straight if I’m wrong.
I’m also assuming that my husband will not need air-con in the first half of September on Mt Rigi — so if that is not the case, and Mt Rigi has a good chance of a heat wave at that time of year, let me know. I’ve learned never to travel with the sleep-deprived.
I wish it was possible for me to firm up my travel dates right this minute, but it simply isn’t. I might book some hotels with excellent cancellation policies, but I need to hold off buying those Swiss Passes until I am absolutely sure which day we will begin traveling from Italy into Switzerland.
Much gratitude — and best with your own trip!
HI Constance –
<<” For us, choosing a hotel often centers less on views than issues about allergies (not too much old fashioned upholstery),wi-fi reliability and quiet.”>>
Can’t comment on the upholstery issue. The rooms at the Bergsonne don’t have lot, but the wooden furnishings are “Rustic” meaning “old. Wi-Fi works.
I have gotten in the habit of renting a portable Wi-Fi hotspot, because I stay in places that don’t have good Wi-Fi…just good food. It is faster than the Bergsonnes, but the Bergsonne’s works fine. My Smart phone will give me a Wi-Fi hotspot in Europe, but I have not tried it yet.
<<” I’m assuming that if my actual hotel room doesn’t have a view that I don’t need to walk very far to find a bench where I can enjoy the view. Please set me straight if I’m wrong.”>>
Every room at the Bergsonne and most or all at the other hotels mentioned are provided with excellent views, in clear weather. You won’t have to leave your room at any of them.. (Guessing about which views you’d get at Rigi-Kulm. Never stayed there.)
One night we came up to our room after dinner at the Bergsonne and looked out toward the south west to see an impressive lightning show. Next morning, we got out the maps and concluded that it had been near Zermatt.
I’ve attached an image or two which try to place the Bergsonne and Rigi Kaltbad. You are looking at them from the southwest or west. I probably took them from Hammetschwand, pictured in my earlier post with image attachments.
<<“I’m also assuming that my husband will not need air-con in the first half of September on Mt Rigi — so if that is not the case, and Mt Rigi has a good chance of a heat wave at that time of year, let me know. I’ve learned never to travel with the sleep-deprived.”>>
Extremely unlikely. The mountain height means cool air at night. The Bergsonne does not have and does not need AC. The newest near the station might have it. The other old one very close to the station surely won’t. The rooms with views at Rigi-Kaltbad all face the west or southwest – which does mean plenty of sun. Warms the rooms nicely in the winter. Not much sun at night.
I’ve had one or two Swiss trips with heat waves in September, but going up into the mountains solves the sleeping problems. Or, stay at a place at the foot of the mountains, and cool air flows down at night.
Can’t comment from personal knowledge about Rigi-Kulm, but it is high enough to be cool at night.
Slowpoke
Thank you, and especially thanks for adding the pictures. The Bergsonne looks beautifully situated and charming from looking at its website, and the upholstery is minimal. (Where we really run into trouble in old-fashioned hotels is beds with canopies or headboards covered with plush fabrics, velvet drapes, etc.) I think I’ll call them directly to see if the have a available a room with beds that don’t have footboards, since we’re both tall.
I see from their website that hotel guests can get a form of half-board. Do they get a fixed menu or how does that work? From pictures, the “slow food” looks gorgeous, but quite different in concept from Italy’s typical “slow food”.
When you stay there do you eat both lunch and dinner at their restaurant?
Thanks too for sharing your experiences about wi-fi. We can get by with our smart phones. In general, do the high Swiss mountains make for lots of deadspots when it comes to getting.a phone signal?
Hi Constance-
<<“We can get by with our smart phones. In general, do the high Swiss
mountains make for lots of deadspots when it comes to getting.a phone
signal?”>>
Mobile phone coverage is excellent; the dead spots are in some non-populated mountain areas:
scmplc.begasoft.ch/plc app/pages/gis/netzabde ckung.jsf?lang=de
Swisscom is the best network.
<<“I think I’ll call them directly to see if they have a available a room
with beds that don’t have footboards, since we’re both tall.”>>
I do not recall footboards when I have stayed there.
The food is slow because Frau Camps – her name is Dorly – takes her time to do it right. When there is a crowd, there can be notable waits between courses.
I note too that they are looking for help……
When I was there in May, just after they opened, they had only one set piece menu…it happened that the main course was guinea hen ( das Perlhuhn). There were only 3 tables that night. There were a few alternate first course, desserts, etc.Quality was up to the usual high standards.
That was the first time that ever happened. I always go a la carte. In the past two years, a card with more than half a dozen main courses has had a reduced set of choices, especially on nights when they were not busy.
Usually,there has been a menu called “Dorly’s Mode” which is multicourse and in which she shows off her talent for balancing and presenting complementary flavors.
Here are a couple of older links.
http://www.gaultmillau.ch/res taurants/bergsonne-18299
morningcoat.org/weggis -dorly-willy-camps-stalder-hotel-bergsonne-rigi/image-2592/
I expect this year that I shall try for a Friday night or Saturday night.
We have eaten two meals per day there a couple of times. In those days 10 or 15 years ago, a sunny day brought a lot of mid-day eaters, and the total time involve took too much time out of the day. So, no midday meals there for many years. Nice to eat on the terrace and look out over the lake, though.
Whether you order a “Menu” which is what the Swiss call an organized set of courses, or do that and change something, or order a la carte, they are very flexiible. In case you haven’t run into this before, in German-speaking Switzerland, the list of food is called die Karte ( the card) and a menu is a set series of courses. Many places have a “Tagesmenu” which is a cheap special. Quite common to get people into the restaurannts, so that they’ll order drinks. Sometimes one simply orders the ‘menu.” There may be more than one at different price points.
Often I like a particular main course, but an entree (first course, as the name actually means) not on that “menu.” They’ll mix and match.
Since those days , we were or I am usually else where at midday…hiking, visiting some place around the lake, etc. So for several years it has been only an evening meal. The wine selection is good enough to usually cause us to order a full bottle. if you don’t finish it, and you are there two nights in a row, the partially used bottle will reappear automatically at your table. That is not uncommon in Switzerland.
If you do book there, I’ll ask Arno to give you my name. They know me well, and a mention will get you a little more attention. No discount 😉
Last time I did that, the person contacted Herr Camps, but then never actually made a booking. When I showed up a couple of months later, he asked me why. ;-(
He has a good memory, but is something of a character. Excellent taste in wines.
Slowpoke
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