[nivsrv]

9 July 2017 at 13:20:44 #812573

Hi. I’m Niv. I am planning on visiting a friend of mine who recently moved to Lorrach, Germany from India in mid August this year. This would be my first Eurotrip. So I need a little help with planning. I am planning on staying for 12 days.

1) Would it make sense to stay in Lorrach and visit the Cities in Switzerland? If yes then which cities would you suggest that I visit?

2) How many days would I need for each of the cities that you suggest and which is the best way to travel to them from Lorrach.

3) Since I will be spending 2 days for seeing Lorrach I will be left with 10 days for Switzerland.

4) Also, if it’s not too much trouble can you suggest if it’s a good idea to visit any other near by German cities or France cities. If that is outside the scope of this forum please skip this question.

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[Removed user]

9 July 2017 at 13:42:24 #866541

Hi nivsrv and welcome to MySwissAlps!

I can’t answer your questions here about Germany or France but we certainly can help with Switzerland!

1. You are 20 minutes by train from Basel so that is a good start! Have a look at our Where to Go page to look through the various Swiss cities you can visit (and pick which ones you want to visit) and then use the Swiss railways timetable to see how far by train they are from Lörrach.

   **What is it you want to see while you are in Switzerland? We can’t make suggestions of where to go without knowing what you would like to see or do.

2. This highly depends on what you want to see and do in the area of each city. Luzern is very popular and you could spend a week there trying to visit all the nearby mountains and attractions.

I hope these links help you get started on your trip planning!

Lucas

[Slowpoke]

10 July 2017 at 9:16:28 #866542

Hi Niv-

Adding to what Lucas said, there is frequent train service from Basel to Luzern. His suggestion is quite good, and one that is often made here for the first time visitor to Switzerland.

Trains from Basel at xx04 take 1 hour and 1 minute to Luzern. There are trains at intermediate times, as well, that take a few minutes longer.

I’ve attached a couple of photographs of Luzern and the beautiful lake. Lake boat rides are very enjoyable and have several routes.

In addition to the timetable, and the “cities” link that Lucas provided, you will likely find this map to be useful for considering other cities:

map.search.ch/?pos=662784,223872&z=2

I like this map because it shows the train lines clearly if you zoom in far enough. Also, in the menus, under “Points of Interest/Traffic” you can turn on overlays that show different kinds of public transport stations.

Do you like to hike?

Knowledge of your interests makes our recommendations better.

Slowpoke

[Peterli]

11 July 2017 at 5:51:16 #866543

Hi Niv,

I will start by asking you if you are going to have access to an automobile ? If the answer is yes, either by rental or your friend, then some very beautiful villages in the Haut-Rhin area of France (Alsace) that you would find very beautiful. These include Ribeauville, Riquewihr, and Kaysersberg, all located just a bit north of Colmar. Kayserberg was just recently voted as France’s favourite town. http://www.connexionfrance.co m/French-news/Joy-as-Kaysersberg-voted-favourite-village Eguisheim is another lovely village, just outside (south-west) of Colmar, which was voted the most beautiful village in France back in 2013:

Colmar itself should not be missed. Here is a video on Colmar; https://youtu.be/CHWzK aSpoc8 There are a number of excellent videos showing Colmar and some of the above-mentioned villages on YouTube so I suggest you take a look at some of them. Here’s another one to whet your appetite; https://youtu.be/ZRLwC 4wpMaU

If you understand French, you can watch this video made about Kayersberg: https://youtu.be/PLthc W9WGZs Even if you don’t know a word of French, you will get a real taste of what Kayersbery is like.

[nivsrv]

11 July 2017 at 12:16:54 #866544

Hi Peterli. I was not planning on renting one. And my friend doesn’t have one. I was planning on relying more on the public transport system. Is there any other way of getting to the villages? If so I would love to visit them. I was planning on doing a day trip to Colmar from Lorrach. How many days would I need to do the villages that you suggested along with Colmar? . If renting a car is the only way and if I can get it from Lorrach for a reasonable rate then I don’t mind doing it. Since I’m coming from India I’m not sure if there is a problem when it comes to being able todrive around in Europe. That is something I need to look into and figure out. Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it. Niv.

[nivsrv]

11 July 2017 at 12:41:39 #866545

Thank you Lucas. I’m sorry I took awhile to reply. It took me awhile to go through the links you provided and to understand the geography of the region. I did go through the where to go page and BaseI looks lovely. I am more interested in nature than in museums and galleries I definitely will look at one or two of those as well but they won’t be the major part of the trip. I can’t do difficult hikes but easy on the knees short ones are ok. As long as they lead to a scenic location and are short and not to steep I’m happy to take. So I figured a day for Berne, a day for Interlaken from there not too many days for the cities. So, a day for Zurich and I’m not sure if I should do Geneva. Maybe 3 days for Basel and 2 days for Lucerne. Does that sound ok? Do let me know. That would make it 8 days for Switzerland leaving me with another 4 days for Lorrach and any othernGerman cities I wanna visit. I know that Switzerland is a beautiful country and every inch off it is amazing. I can’t do justice to it in a week. But, if you think there is some place that inshould absolutely bendping please do tell me so that I can make sure I add it to the list. Thank you for all your help. Niv

[nivsrv]

11 July 2017 at 12:48:33 #866546

Thank you slopoke for the map. It is quite helpful. I’d like to let you know that my main interest is nature. I would love to get my fill off the breathtaking views that Switzerland is so famous for. The Swiss alps, the meadows, the pristine lakes, all of it. I’m not very athletic and hence hiking isn’t my strong suit. As long as the trail isn’t very challenging I can manage. I wouldn’t mind visiting a few galleries and one or two interesting museums. To add variety to the whole trip. And if possible I would love to taste whatever the local cuisine is. Thank you once again for all the help.

[Removed user]

11 July 2017 at 16:46:44 #866547

Hi Niv,

If you want to get out into nature (ie mountain tops via trains and cable cars of course) then I would put most of my time in Luzern and Interlaken – Luzern especially is a very nice town.

I would look at 1 day in Basel, 1 day for Bern, 3 days in Luzern, 2 days in Interlaken and maybe one day in Montreux. I wouldn’t go as far as Geneva and I don’t think Zurich is worth the visit for you.

Click on the town pages I linked about and they list all the attractions near that town. For Luzern, there are many options! For Interlaken I would look at Schilthorn or Jungfraujoch and maybe a day for Thun / Lake Thun. From Interlaken or Luzern you can take the Golden Pass panoramic train to Montreux which is a lovely town on Lake Geneva, with nearby cheese and chocolate factories and vineyards to see.

I hope this helps – let us know if you have more questions after you sort through this extra information!

Lucas

[Peterli]

11 July 2017 at 19:05:18 #866548

Hello again, Niv.

I can understand your apprehension about driving in Europe on the right side of the road instead of the left as in India. When I rented and drove a car in Ireland, I had to be alert and on my toes. I looked at car rentals in the area (not knowing your actual travel dates), and as far as I can see, the rates when renting in France or Germany are pretty well the same, and they are not cheap, especially for short term rentals.

Perhaps a more economical solution for you would be to go over from Lörrach to the Basel SBB train station and catch one of the oodles of trains that go from there to Colmar each day. Check this website for more information: http://www.trainline.eu/train -times/basel-sbb-to-colmar

Once you are in Colmar, if you wish to go to some other villages, for example Kaysersberg, there are busses that run at very reasonable prices. For example the Bus 145 will take you there in about a half hour at a cost of no more than five Euros. See this site: http://www.rome2rio.com/s/Col mar/Kaysersberg Just use your Google search and you will probably find all the information you want.

A train and bus combination is going to be much cheaper than renting a car, and you won’t have to worry about finding a place to park (not always easy in Colmar). Just remember that you lose a whole lot of flexibility when you rely on public transportation. I personally rent, even though it is more expensive, because I want that total freedom. However, I will repeat that sometimes looking for a place to park is a hassle and a waste of time.

[Slowpoke]

11 July 2017 at 23:42:29 #866549

Hi Niv –

I read two different objectives- at least, for me they are different –

1.- From your first post –

<<“1) Would it make sense to stay in Lorrach and visit the Cities in Switzerland? If yes then which cities would you suggest that I visit? 2) How many days would I need for each of the cities that you suggest and which is the best way to travel to them from Lorrach.”>>

There is a strong emphasis on cities, and nothing else.

2.- From your later post –

<<“I’d like to let you know that my main interest is nature. I would love to get my fill off the breathtaking views that Switzerland is so famous for. The Swiss alps, the meadows, the pristine lakes, all of it. I’m not very athletic and hence hiking isn’t my strong suit. As long as the trail isn’t very challenging I can manage.”>>

Also-

<<“I wouldn’t mind visiting a few galleries and one or two interesting museums. To add variety to the whole trip.”>>

I’ll mention meseums first –

The major museums(plural) that are associated with cities in my mind…and, mind you , I have not checked the internet for lists… are Basel ( art), Zürich (history, art), Winterthur , east of Zürich (art), and Luzern ( art). There are many more.

In Basel – please walk 5-10 minutes from the main station to see the wonderful water-sculpture or fountain by Tingueley.-

http://www.basel.com/en/Media /Attractions/Sightseei ng/Tinguely-Fountain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vK2L8ZUe0

Not your standard museum, but a piece of whimsical art you’ll remember for a long time.

In Luzern, there are two good museums that are extremely convenient. Both emphasize Picasso. There is a small, very personalized one in the old city, and the other is the world class Rosengart Collection only 3 minutes fro Luzern main station. Lots of Picassos, and my favorite, over 100 Klees.

http://www.rosengart.ch/en/we lcome

http://www.luzern.com/en/rose ngart-collection

Those are places that I remeber with pleasure. Purely personal choices from many available.

Cities with Scenery –

The best way to experience the natural beauty is to get outside the

cites, or, visit one that has beautiful surroundings or beautiful sites

close by.

Basel, Bern and Zürich will not get you close to natural beauty, although Bern has an attractive site on the Aare and the old town is fun. I’d visit Bern as a day trip from either Interlaken or Luzern; save it for a cloudy day. Geneva is on a nice lake. Too far away, for your short time. Lucas also mentioned Montreux, which has high mountains and the lake.

In my personal opinion – not shared by everyone – the single nicest lake in Switzerland is Lake Lucerne. In German, der Vierwaldstättersee. I attached some pictures in a link above. This link following is about a hike there, but I’m not suggesting the hike,unless you find something that you really like. I’m giving the link because of the information and pictures in the thread, about the southern portion of Lake Lucerne.

http://www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/the-swiss-path-and-southern-lake-lucerne

Lakes Brienz and Lake Thun (both much smaller) have more spectacular nearby mountains, but Lake Lucerne has wonderful variety, mountains, villages, and access to various boat landings by train or bus as well as by boat. One of my favorite ways to relax on my first day in the country is to take a train to Flüelen at the southern tip of the lake, and ride the boat back to Luzern, with a meal on board the boat.

Really, although Luzern does a good job because of the beautiful location, the best way to experience the natural beauty of the country is to get outside the cities. Athletic types use the extensive trail network to get into the more rugged country, where you are in the midst of the alpine beauty. However, you can see a lot of it, and try out some short walks in the area all around the Jungfrau. You don’t have to walk, unless you want to, because of the extensive network of trains, buses, cableways, and trails. You can go up and see a lot, by using the transport network:

http://www.swissholidayco.com /Public/Assets/User/fi les/Map-of-Jungfrauregion1.jpg

Interlaken only gets you close to that. Interlaken is a nice transportaion hub, at the mouth of the valley which leads in to the villages of Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen, and thence upward to Mürren and Wengen and then further up to mountain peaks or small level areas- Männlichen, Kleine Scheidegg, Schilthorn, Jungfraujoch. To be immersed in that , you should stay at Wengen, Mürren, or Grindelwald ( more commercial but great views) or Lauterbrunnen..on the floor of the beautiful valley. But, you can go there easily from Interlaken, it’s just that you are not surrounded by the grandeur in Interlaken.

http://www.myswissalps.com/be rneseoberland

and, particularly,

http://www.myswissalps.com/ju ngfrauregion

Lucas has given some highlights in his post.

I’m responding to your interest in natural beauty, and suggest that you skip Bern as well. (or,make it a day trip from Luzern or Interlaken if you have cloudy weather than hides the mountains.

With your available time, personally, I’d stay at or near Luzern (maybe one of the small owns round the lake, such as Weggis, or Brunnen) ….although it’s only an hour from Basel so you can make day trips. Then, I’d also stay somewhere near the Jungfrau. Interlaken is one choice if you want to use it as a base for places in the Bernese Oberland not near the Jungfrau in addition to the Jungfrau. If your focus is only on the Jungfrau region, I like the villages, such as Wengen ( my personal favorite).

http://www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/tips-about-wengen-and-the-jungfrau-region-by-kim

Use the map I provided earlier and check out Interlaken, Jungfrau, Schilthorn, Wengen, etc.

For perspective, the largest city in the region is Interlaken. Population is 23,300, including the nearby smaller villages located within a few kilometers.

Small towns in Switzerland often have “old town” centers, dating back to the Middle Ages. Remnants of town walls show where the city was centuries ago. Murten is a nice one not terribly far from Bern or Basel:

http://www.myswitzerland.com/ en-us/murten.html

My own explorations of Swiss beauty are often in regions some distance from the cities, and in addition to the usual tourist destinations such as the Jungfrau region. I’ve attached a few images of the Alps (and other scenes) taken from out of the way places, just for a sampling of what you can see if you hike a bit or know where to go in the countryside…Some things to tempt you on your next trip.

Slowpoke

[nivsrv]

13 July 2017 at 18:15:03 #866550

Hey. I’m sorry. It’s my bad. The use of “cities” when I first asked my question wasn’t well thought out. I guess I just meant Switzerland in a general way than literally cities. What I am precisely looking for is natural beauty and amazing scenery preferably in less crowded places. Small towns, places that aren’t crowded with tourists. I’m not concerned about doing things to check them off a list. I would rather have an experience with I, me, myself and nature if you know what I mean and very witnesse. As for the museums, I try to do atleast one museum whereever I go that will give me a feel of the place and thats about it. Same with the galleries I try and make time to see atleast one art gallery usually to get a feel for the local art and try and pick up atleast one affordable piece of art. I also but paintings from street artists when I come across. I’m so sorry for not being this specific and clear from the beginning I’m new to this whole forum thing. Thanks for bearing with me and all the information. I’m yet to go through all this new info. Thank you so much slow poke.

[nivsrv]

13 July 2017 at 18:34:39 #866551

Hey Peterli. I have driven in the Usa before. So I’m ok with driving on the right side. I was just wondering about finding rentals and such. I definitely will be doing Colmar and certainly will do the villages around. Because, if in the future sometime even if I get to France again I don’t think I’d be getting all the way up to Colmar again. So, I’m gonna take this opportunity. The car versus public transport I guess I’ll just figure it out once I get there. Which specific villages and how many is also something I’ll figure out once I get there. I’m sure all the ones you mentioned are equally beautiful. But since I can only spare a day or maximum two I can’t do all of them So, I’ll have to choose the ones closest to Colmar and/or the least crowded with tourists. I’ll just make sure I get an international driving license and that should do it. Thank you so much for your hel. Apart from Colmar and the villages around it I won’t be seeing anything else in France. I’ll have just enough time for these. You have tempted me enough and made sure of that 😊You have been most helpful. Thank you so much.

[nivsrv]

13 July 2017 at 18:42:01 #866552

Hey Lucas . Taking all your advise seriously. No more Zurich or Geneva. Berne, Basel, interlaken, and Lucerne and Montreal it is. Lake thun also looks beautiful. I know that all these places have great connectivity to Basel. But from a practical point of view does it make sense to stay in Lorrach and travel everyday from there? I Haven’t yet looked at the attractions in the towns. I will do that soon. Thank you for your help and patience

[Slowpoke]

13 July 2017 at 20:14:52 #866553

<<“Small towns, places that aren’t crowded with tourists. “>>

Unfortunately, Switzerland has plenty of tourist all year round. The density multiplies in August, when school and work vacation/holidays are common in Europe.

If you look at some of the names attached to the pictures I posted, you’ll get a few ideas.

I’d consider Murten (noted above) on a weekday, not a weekend.

I’ll come back with some other ideas, using Basel as a base.

However, in spite of the tourists, you might want to get a base for a few days in the Bernese Oberland, other than Interlaken. Maybe nearby, because it is a good transit hub.

Also, though not necessary, it might be helpful to understand your language capabilities. Any French or German?

Slowpoke

[nivsrv]

13 July 2017 at 22:09:58 #866554

Hey slowpoke, unless we are talking about regional Indian languages which I know half a dozen I speak nothing other than English. Absolutely zero French and Herman. However, my friend living in Lorrach is fluent in Deutschland. He would be accompanying me to a few of the places. Unfortunately, I can’t really say which ones today because it all depends on his schedule at the hospital and we won’t know till we get closer to the trip.

[Slowpoke]

13 July 2017 at 22:46:21 #866555

Hi Niv-

<<“Hey slowpoke, unless we are talking about regional Indian languages which I know half a dozen I speak nothing other than English. Absolutely zero French and Herman. However, my friend living in Lorrach is fluent in Deutschland.”>>

No problem, English work most everywhere. In the countryside, sometimes it is easier if you have some French or German, but English usually works.

And it is nice to hear that you can handle the regional languages in India.

Did you know that regional variations on Swiss German ( which is very different from “regular” German), exist in Switzerland?

Slowpoke

[Removed user]

14 July 2017 at 10:06:34 #866556

Hi Nivsrv,

I would definitely try and base yourself in Switzerland for at least 2 nights if you have the time. Especially, as Slowpoke notes, in the Jungfrau region (a region within the Bernese Oberland region). If you stay in or near Interlaken you will have very good train connections to get around, and can easily visit Lake Thun or Brienz as well. Lauterbrunnen is another town near Interlaken (and prettier) that could work well for you.

Lucas

[Slowpoke]

14 July 2017 at 16:48:25 #866557

Hi Niv-

I’m struggling with this one.

I n fact, I do a lot of what you describe, by the beauty tends to be more subtle or relaxing than what you will find near the Jungfrau, or at Zermatt.

In fact, one train ride that I particularly like (Spiez-Kanderstag-Brig) was considered a waste of time by a traveler who wanted to have more time to see the spectacualr alpine scenery in Zermatt, and begrudged the extra hour required to travel that older scenic route vs the fast new tunnel.

Another did not find Bern to be worth visiting. I do, (day trips…not for striking scenery.)

The problem with following my pattern is that I stay in many of those places because of a local inn ..many of which are going out of business (because of a change in customer base) .

And, they tend to be small, worth not too much time, relative ti the time to get to them by public transportation. So, with a bus once per hour, you might spend a fair amount of time to get to a place that is small enough to visit in less than an hour, and then have the return journey.

Also, I tend to use those places as bases for walks in the countryside. Typically 4 to 6 hours. Not necessarily strenuous, but almost never really level. Tat puts me in the midst of the meadows nd forests, often passing close to striking farmhouses and farms ( see pictures I posted earlier in the thread).

I see “nature” by walking in it. That is not the same as choosing to make a walk because there is a specif scenic feature at the end of the walk.

An example of doing the walk to get to a specific feature is:

http://www.myswissalps.com/hi king/bachsee

It is popular, because it is easy and the result is very attractive.

The most serious example of seeing the most spectacular “nature” in Switzerland is alpine hiking in the highest mountains. It is usually strenuous. I have bad knees and don’t do those.

One example of a walk that accomplishes that is, luckily, easy to do and easy to get to. It is among the best scenic walks in Swizerland that do not require serious alpine hiking.

I’ve attached a few images from that walk or from nearby.

It is so easy that it has the nickname “The Grannies’ Walk.”

http://www.myswissalps.com/hi king/maennlichen-kleinescheidegg

It is very popular.

Perhaps you are detecting a pattern…unless you do rigorous hiking, the spectacularly beautiful places are full of tourists.

With that lengthy disclaimer, I’l mention some places that I like to walk in or near. All are accessible by public transportation, typically one per hour at a minimum, although sometimes the service is now days limited to a couple of buses a day into and out from the trailheads for some walks.

You can search for them on MySwissAlps, or the internet.

I’ll not worry about proximity to Basel.

The timetable will help you..

Two really nice old towns, full of tourists on weekends –

1.- Murten/Morat (two names, German and French, because it is right on the language border between the German and French language regions). Old city walls are intact.

map.search.ch/?pos=575591,197500&z=51 2

The aerial image view makes clear the old town).

2.- Stein-am-Rhein

map.search.ch/?pos=707005,279794&z=51 2

For both, the aerial image view makes clear the old town.

In Switzerland, there have been no modern wars that destroyed the old town at the heart of most Swiss cities. Even in Zürich, you can find the remains of some of the old fortifications, and some of the old wall remains above the old city in Luzern.

3.- A third town, or group of towns, is in the Lower Engadine:

http://www.myswissalps.com/lo werengadine

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Engadin

Scuol and Guarda are well worth a visit, and a circular easy walk from Ftan ( accessed by bus from Scuol station) to Ardez, and then down to the valley for a train from Ardez station back to Scuol puts you in the midst of beatutiful alpine scenery, well up above the valley of the river Inn. We stayed in Guarda frequently, sometimes in Ftan.

It is a long way from Basel.

I posted a couple of pictures from Scuol earlier.

I’m going to continue this later, in part because we are limited to 10 images per post, and partly because I’m out of time at the moment. This is getting long.

Next post I’ll deal with another part of the Three Lakes Region, north of Murten. Le Landeron, Ligerz, Schafis, Twann….and, the Emmental.

Slowpoke.

[Slowpoke]

15 July 2017 at 1:23:33 #866558

Hi Niv-

I posed your question(s) to a Swiss friend. He is an excellent photographer, his wife is a painter and sculptress, and his two daughters are painters…quite succesful artists.

He has given me some answers about towns ( which I will post later) and waits for his wife to come home for more information about museums and galleries.

He did give me a link to one place that I was not aware of, and that I will try to see for myself in the Fall.

The article is in German, but your friend can probably help you with it.

http://denkmalpflege-schweiz.ch/2016/07/11/ werdenberg-die-aelteste-holzsiedlung-der-schweiz-und-vielleicht-kleinste-stadt-der-welt/

I am not sure of the implications of the word “die Holzsiedlung” (literally. – the wood settlement) but the rest of the link specifies “and possibly the smallest city in the world.”

This definitely fits in the category of “small” and “cities” as well as not being filled with tourists.

Sorry that I don’t have an English version.

It is located near St. Gallen, which has a wonderful old town and UNESCO world heritage Abbey library. The Abbey dates from the 800’s.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Abbey_of_Saint_Gall

http://www.atlasobscura.com/p laces/abbey-library-of-saint-gall-2

Slowpoke

[Removed user]

16 July 2017 at 9:49:03 #866559

Hey Slowpoke! interesting article!

Die Holzsiedlung translates a bit better as wooden settlement (ie houses made from wood).

An easy visit next time I’m in Buchs or Vaduz perhaps!

[Slowpoke]

16 July 2017 at 13:47:12 #866560

Thanks Lucas.

I thought that might be it, but wasn’t sure.

Since you are from Canada, and are familiar with the construction techniques in the USA, wooden houses are not so strange to us.

But, the norm in Switzerland, in modern times, is masonry construction.

Of course, in the Emmental, “Blockbau” is common in older dwellings. I’ve seen it elsewhere in central Switzerland.

http://jbdowse.com/swz /report/loetschental

That particular town is a bit far afield from Basel, as you note.

Slowpoke