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I think you are wise to keep the Skyros trip. It seems like a special experience.
That is pretty much it for the Swiss part. Needs fine tuning. Nicely organized. It s a pleasure to see how well you have picked up the use of the timetable.
I’ll have to recheck exact details of schedules and comment further on your specific issues, over the weekend.
However, I recommend Trachselwald instead of Trub/Trubschachen. I don’t think you can do all that in one day without a car. Trubschachen /Trub was a less desirable option, in that you would not see the show dairy. Trachselwald is very close to Sumiswald-Grunen bahnhof, and will be a good alternative for a visit to a small village. It is the village in the panorama that I posted earlier.
It will be hard to do much more than the Schynige Platte- First walk in one day. That is a long, very strenuous hike at high altitude, with significant ascents and descents at altitude. Instead, I ‘d try to fit in the Männlichen Kleine Scheidegg walk. Many find the walk toward the face of the Eiger to have a strong effct as it grows over you. Easily accessible from Wengen, it can be combined with walks from Lauterbrunnen.
Attached are pictures from the Männlichen -Kleine Scheidegg walk, or from the short extension up to Männlichen Gipfel
http://www.myswissalps.com/hi king/maennlichen-kleinescheidegg
Cows are almost as ubiquitous as in India…..mostly for dairy.
Slowpoke
Attachments:Hi Slowpoke
Thank you so much for your recommendation regarding Trachselwald and also for the photos.
1. I want to book in my flights positively this week but wanted to check with you regarding your suggestion in one of the posts to travel to Munich for a flight to Athens. I would be in Sachseln on the 13th night. Is there a train from Luzern / Zurich to Munich that I could on the 14th Sept and then a flight from Munich to Athens?
2. I also wanted to purchase the Swiss Travel pass but there are so many agents. Which one would be better?
3. Would it be possible to visit Schilthorn and to take the Wengen Mannlichen cable car along with Leuterbrunnen to Stechelberg hike and Leuterbrunnen to Wilderswil in the two days that I’d be there?
4. I would like to cover Mt Rigi, Mt. Titlis, Museum of transport and do the boat trip. How could i combine the boat trip with the visits to these sites?
5. I also heard from Bellevue in Wengen about the availability of a room on the specified dates, would confirm to them after my flight is booked.
Monica
Hi Monica-
First – to clear up some comments from the last post, particularly in the Emmental.
<<“1. 8th / 9th – 11th Sept Arrive in Zurich, (most likely on 8th). Upon arrival to head to Wengen (Zurich Flughafen- Bern-Spiez-InterlakenOst – Lauterburnnen – Wengen) (to follow kim’s guidance pg6 Part 2) – should take about 3 hours. I’ve emailed to Hotel Bellevue, Wengen to inquire about the room availability for those dates. I’d prefer to do the Leuterbrunnen to Stechelberg hike as mentioned on Kim’s document on Pg 19 Part 2. Could also tick the box from Leuterbrunnen to Wilderswil. Would you recommend Schynige Platte to First? Could these be done in one day? If so, then I could also leave on the 10th instead of 11th.”>>
Definitely not in one day, and , as noted, I’d suggest Männlichen to Kleine Scheidegg instead of the Schynige-Platte to First hike.
There are plenty other things to do in the area, which is perhaps the most impressive alpine area in Switzerland, whether you arrive Zürich on the 8th or the 9th, and recognizing jet-lag, I ‘d stay through the morning of the 11th.
The Bellevue will pick you up from and take you to station, so an 0803 departure is possible. The whole day could work with an 0903 departure, but it would almost surely require stashing your luggage at the Show Dairy. You may miss breakfast at the hotel, or may not. They might make you something to take with you to eat for the AM.
Assume 0803. Go to Sumiswald-Grünen Bahnhof. The name distinction is sometimes used for bus vs. train, at the same station. The Sumiswald-Grünen is the train station, and S-G-Bahhof makes it clear that the bus is stopping at the train station. They are the same place.
The routing is through Thun, as you noted, and the fastest route is through Hasle Rüegsau and on to Affoltern i,. E, Dorf, by bus at 1114.
That works if you can stash your luggage at the show dairy while you have lunch and perhaps walk around the area bit.
I’d e-mail the dairy and ask if it possible. They have a lot of space, so they might well allow you to do that.
Afterward, bus to Affoltern-Weier, and bus to Sumiswald Post. Walk 5 minutes to the Gashof Bären. Have a tea, or coffee. Dump your bags, bus to Trachselwakd, look around, return afterwards to Sumiswald. By bus, or part bus and part walk if you are energetic. I know that all that works, without even fine-tuning with the time table. Beware the mid-day gap in the buses through Trachselwald.
Look around Sumiswald…not much special in my opinion…have dinner at the Bären.
If you have to leave luggage at Sumiswald or nearby, the first thought would be to go all the way to the Bären from Wengen, than back to the dairy for a cheesy lunch. Have to look at schedules, but, it is certainly possible.
As you noted, you can get to S-G station at 1139. Bus up the hill at 1144 to Sumi- Post. 5 minutes walk (150 meters) to hotel. Check in, dump bags. Walk back to Post by 1215.
Catch 1216 bus to Aff-W. from Sumi-Post. arrive at 1223. Change. Catch 1237 bus to Affoltern Dorf at 1239. Walk a couple of minutes to the dairy, have lunch.
Catch 1414 bus to Aff-Wei at 1419, change for Sumiswald-Grünen at 1433 arr S-G Bahnhof at 1442. Oooops – Bus to Trachselwald not until 1634. Midday break.
So, walk 1.2 km to Trachselwald. Arrive 1505 to 1515.
Explore Trachselwald.
Bus back to Sumiswald Post at 1721. arr. 1727 Earlier is possible.
Walk to Bären, have dinner.
There is be some slack in that ….Certainly you could have dinner later than 1730.
I’ll not try to fit in Trub or Trubschacen. Too complex. Can only be done by skipping lunch at the show dair or dinner ate Bären. If you decide that you want to do it, play with the timetables. You coud saty a the Hirschen Langnau. Nice place.
You have a good grasp of the bus and train schedules, so you can certainly rearrange things. My objective was to get you by a possible route from Wengen, to the Show Dairy in Affoltern i. E for lunch, an Emmental village, and a famous Emmental inn..
I think your Luzern/Sachseln plans make sense, but I have run out of time and will have to revierw them later.
I’ll reply to your latest post tonight or tomorrow, more likely. Perhaps others have comments.
Slowpoke
<“I would be in Sachseln on the 13th night. Is there a train from Luzern / Zurich to Munich that I could on the 14th Sept and then a flight from Munich to Athens?”>>
I don’t recal that comment. Perhaps I meant Zürich.
I see no reason to go to München. (Munich)
Slowpoke
Hi Slowpoke
<<2.- The need to be at some airport at a time that gets you a flight to Athens for a 1230 flight on the 15th. The sooner you can pin down that flight from Switzerland, the better we can think about the 14th. A quick check suggests that you’ll have to fly on the 14th. For example, a flight from Zürich at 1655 arrive 2230 via Munich. I’l assume that you have to be at the airport at 1455. Direct flights are available, and are more expensive>>
I’m sorry I misinterpreted the above post from you. I thought I’d have to travel to Munich to get to Athens and since I would have the Swiss travel pass, I’d be able to save some money by travelling through the route ( Zurich – Munich- Athens) since the pass would include the cost of covering some distance within Switzerland.
Thank you for all the planning, I’m truly grateful.
Monica
Hi Monica –
I’m thinking about luggage. One thing that I do when I travel around Switzerland is make use of the luggage transfer system of the SBB. It is absolutely reliable. Over the years, there have been a variety of services, including some overnight transfers, but that Express service is no longer offered station to station. It is offered station to hotel for a substantial fee..
Depending on what you choose to do, you might arrange to pick up luggage at Sumiswald Grünen, Luzern, or Zürich airport rail stations, or have it delivered to one of your hotels. There is a potential for more freedom of routing and choices if you do not have to carry a large bag when you visit the Show Dairy.
It might be possible for you to send a heavy bag from Wengen, with various options for pickup time and location….and cost. Read all the options under the following link. You could have some of your luggage shipped from Wengen to Luzern, for pick up on the 13th after 9 AM
The options – and there are several, all for a significant fee – are described here:
http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/lugg age/luggage.html
Spend some time with this and look at the Station to Station option and the Station to Door options first. They are the most likely choices. First, look under Luggage Station to Station,which has a substantial time lag.. You could turn some in at Wengen station and get it at Luzern. If you waited to end it until the day you left Wengen, the 11th as late as 5 PM or as early as the luggage office opens at 7AM, you could get it after 9AM on Friday the 13th in Luzern or Zürich Flughafen. Or, you could leave it at Wengen Station on a day before the day that you leave, you leave and and have it at Luzern on the 12th. They will hold it after it arrives at the station. No charge for a day or so, at least when I did it.. Or you could leave a “Skyros bag” at the airport. for a fee, and pick it up on the way out.
The Bellevue is a 10 minute walk, some uphill, to the station. They can give you a ride to help with your luggage.
You could hand it in at Wengen at some point, and have it delivered to your hotel for a substantial fee, with faster timing than station to door..
There is no luggage office at Sachseln. There is at Sumiswald Grünen.
I have used the service many times, always station to station. I have never used station to door, but my airline has, on occasions when they lost and delayed my luggage. It is safe and reliable. if you want to be especially cautious, you could have it delivered to a station that you choose at least a day before you fly out, just for a bit of extra time.
Slowpoke
Comments about your 5 questions-
<<“1. I want to book in my flights positively this week but wanted to check with you regarding your suggestion in one of the posts to travel to Munich for a flight to Athens. I would be in Sachseln on the 13th night. Is there a train from Luzern / Zurich to Munich that I could on the 14th Sept and then a flight from Munich to Athens?”>>
We have that straightenedout. My mistake. I di mention Munich, but meant that you would have to fly there. You can sort aout flight schedules.
<<“2. I also wanted to purchase the Swiss Travel pass but there are so many agents. Which one would be better?”>>>
I don’t know, but anyone listed in this link will be satisfactory. Happy Rail hass gone out of their way to give me good service in the past. Although I live in the USA, I have carried a Swiss resident’s Half- fare card for a coule of decades, , so I don’t worry about that. I think that the prices are similar from various services.
http://www.myswissalps.com/tr ain/ticketspasses
<<“http://www.myswissalps.com/tr ain/ticketspasses">>
. <<“Would it be possible to visit Schilthorn and to take the Wengen Mannlichen cable car along with Leuterbrunnen to Stechelberg hike and Leuterbrunnen to Wilderswil in the two days that I’d be there?”>>
I don’t hink that the walk along the valley to Wilderswil from LB is anything sepcial.
You’re better of walking around places where you can see the high
mountains. That valley walk is not very scenic. I’d get up to Männlichen and walk to Kleine Scheidegg. Easy and spectacular. You could fit in the walk to Stechelberg from LB afterward. Or you could walk from Kleine Scheidegg down to Wengen. A lot of downhill, so your knees could get a bit tired if you are not used to much downhill walking. LB-to Stechelberg to Schilthorn ( cableway from Stechelberg) an back down to LB would take about half to3/4 of the day.
<<“4. I would like to cover Mt Rigi, Mt. Titlis, Museum of transport and do the boat trip. How could i combine the boat trip with the visits to these sites?”>>
Use the timetable. Several lake boats stop at the Transport Museum/Lido ( there is a beach on the lake at by the museum.
This time table for the lake boats is quite useful for planning boat rides.
http://www.lakelucerne.ch/en/ timetable-fares/timetable/
Use the correct seasonal timetable.
You should be able to vist the transport museum and the Rigi in one day , using a boat to the museum ( (or walk or bus) and a bus to Vitznau for the cograil train up.
The vcableway bewtween Rigi Kaltbad and Weggis is nice, but leaves you up hill aboout 15 minutes from the boat landing, so I would usr it to go down, not up.
http://www.lakelucerne.ch/en/ timetable-fares/timetable/
map.search.ch/?pos=668297,211595&z=51 2&poi=bergbahn,haltest elle,zug
Mouse over an icon to get the station name.
Titlis is not easy to combine with lake boat trips…the boats are time consuming and the schedules are limited. However, work with this map to see possible boat connections on the way to/from Titlis. There is not a lot of cross-lake service, but there is a little bit.
map.search.ch/?pos=664456,200832&z=12 8&poi=bergbahn,haltest elle,zug
Maybe something from Alpnach or Alpnachstad via Kehrsiten…. once a took a lake boat from Kehrsiten across the lake to the Transport Museum, than walked along the shore to Luzern.
<<“5. I also heard from Bellevue in Wengen about the availability of a room on the specified dates, would confirm to them after my flight is booked.”>>
You probably will possibly want to get the package with meals ( which I described in an earlier post in this thread) , as a way to save money and eat well. I am not sure about the details, but I suggest that you mention it when you book, perhaps asking if they expect to have such a plan in September.
If you you want to explore for a meal, Kim’s article makes good suggestions. The Cafe at the Eiger Apartments ( formerly Eiger Hotel) close to the station is quite good.
http://www.restaurant-eiger.ch/
not much of website, or, site under maintenance.
Slowpoke
Hi Monica-
One more thought about the Emmental.
The routing that I suggested to be used (if you cannot leave your luggage temporarily at the Show Dairy) gets you and your luggage to the Gasthof Bären Sumiswald before you go to the Show Dairy or explore. That is what I would do, to remove time constraints. However, you will pass through Sumiswald- Grünen station. You could leave luggage there if it it works better for you, but it is easy to be delayed and get back there later than you expect- after they close – if you are exploring. So, I sent you to the Bären first.
Slowpoke
Hi Slowpoke
I’m in absolute awe and gratitude for all your guidance and generosity with time to explain the minutest of details to me.
I really like your suggestion about the luggage. You mentioned that there isn’t any luggage office in Sachseln. I was wondering if it was possible to use the station to door service and send my luggage from Wengen on the 10th to be delivered to me at Gasthaus Engel in Sachseln on 12th that would save me the trouble of carrying my luggage to the dairy and i’d have it delivered to me before i fly out from Zurich.
i wasted couple of hours today, with two agents, trying to get my flights booked but they both struggled to book the domestic flight from Athens to Skyros and back. I’ve written to skyros for a solution, hopefully, i’ll be able to sort it out to finalise the bookings.
I couldn’t work on the boat trip today, will try working on it tomorrow. Too tired after the 2-hour training with my dog, Zoe. She’s adorable but it’s hard work teaching her not to pull on the lead. In all honesty, it’s me who needs to be trained more than her, I’ll get there some day!
Monica
<<“I’m in absolute awe and gratitude for all your guidance and generosity with time to explain the minutest of details to me”>>
Thank you. I’m pleased to help. It is nice to help someone who takes the time and care to understand the details. There are exceptional tools available, if you take the time to use them. And, we rarely get someone who wants to go to places that are not the main destinations. Finally, since there are lurkers or active travelers who read these posts, it is useful now and then to illustrate how the travel system does its best to help out a traveler. And, how the travel network works in the rural areas. As an aside, it is a social policy of the Swiss Federation government to make sure that people have access to public transport in the most remote villages.
<<“You mentioned that there isn’t any luggage office in Sachseln. I was wondering if it was possible to use the station to door service and send my luggage from Wengen on the 10th to be delivered to me at Gasthaus Engel in Sachseln on 12th that would save me the trouble of carrying my luggage to the dairy and i’d have it delivered to me before i fly out from Zurich.”>>
That should work.
I checked and Wengen will accept the luggage, and the nature of the destination in Sachseln would not require any special provisions – it is not a car-free area, for example.
The timing should work. I have only one concern. It is possible but very unlikely that the Gasthof Engel would not have someone to receive the luggage on the 12th. There are different time windows available for the drop off……..The different and confusing information on the Engel’s web-site about opening hours causes the concern.
When you make your reservation at the Engel, ask them if it will be
possible to have your luggage sent to them….ask if they will have someone who
c an recive it. You can discuss the time windows …shown in the SBB webvbsite.
I have not heard from them yet about opening hours in September. Worst case – check with them by phone just before you leave home, or after you arrive in Switzerland. If the person who answers the phone is the exceptional person who does not speak English – you should ask nicely when they answer the phone – they’ll call for someone who does.
<<“i wasted couple of hours today, with two agents, trying to get my flights booked but they both struggled to book the domestic flight from Athens to Skyros and back. I’ve written to skyros for a solution, hopefully, i’ll be able to sort it out to finalise the booking”>>
Sorry to hear it. One gets accustomed to the functioning travel planning system in Switzerland, and wishes all other countries were as well organized.
Slowpoke
Hi Slowpoke
Thank you for your kind words. It’s been an honour to have had your support in planning this trip.
I was finally able to book all my flights today. I feel quite nervous and anxious at the same time. It’s a big commitment and hope it all goes well!
I will be arriving in Zurich on 8th Sept at 1320 after a 24hrs 5min flight. I should hopefully be able to take the 1446 or the 1518 train to go to Wengen. There’d be no chance of any jet lag with so many trains to be changed on the way!. I also emailed to Bellevue, Baren and Gasthaus Engel to confirm my reservation with them. As per your suggestion, I also asked Gasthaus Engel if they’d be able to receive my luggage. Hope to hear from them in a day or so.
Still got to buy my Swiss Travel pass and have yet to confirm to Skyros about my arrival.
Monica
Hi Monica-
Engel and Bären are sometimes slow to answer e-mails.
They might still have fax numbers, and, you can always telephone. English will work.
However, they will both have rooms in September….unless there is some unusual event at Flüeli -Ranft:
http://www.myswitzerland.com/ en-us/flueeli-ranft.html
Slowpoke
Hi Slowpoke
I received emails from both Bellevue and Engel to confirm my booking with them. Still awaiting a response from Baren.
Bellevue requested for my credit card details to confirm my booking which I did provide to them. They did not ask for a deposit but suggested that I could pay them after my stay in Sept. but would be charged if in case I cancelled my booking. They were also of the view that even though they accepted payments through a credit card, cash payment would be preferable. Where could I get the currency exchanged there? Is it safe to carry cash there?
Engel were very welcoming and supportive of the idea of receiving my luggage.
I bought the STP from HappyRail yesterday, they sent me an invoice instantly and also mentioned to email me the pass within one working day. I was waiting for it today but perhaps they’ll email it by tomorrow.
I was also able to confirm my booking with Skyros. I could perhaps now get down to some more minute planning. School reopens next week after the long summer break, it’ll be chaotic and maddening once again.
Monica
<<“Bellevue requested for my credit card details to confirm my booking which I did provide to them. They did not ask for a deposit but suggested that I could pay them after my stay in Sept. but would be charged if in case I cancelled my booking”>>
Often, there is a time limit associated with that common practice. You might be able to cancel with no penalty until one month before hand, for example. I don’t recall the Bellevue’s practice.
I recall that there was some sort of Swiss law – details lost in my memory – prohibiting the charging of a deposit with booking.
Give the Bären a few more days, then e-mail them again. Frau Hiltbrunner is sometimes very busy.
<<“Where could I get the currency exchanged there? Is it safe to carry cash there?”>>
Not only safe, but necessary. In the countryside, but, also, even at a few very high end hotes/resorts, only cash is acceptable.
I always carry a couple of hundred CHF.
Qute few public toilets require a coin for wntry,and the super-clean “McClean” brand toilets…some of which also have showers…at major train stations will cost 2CHF to enter. Their entry machines don’t take bills; there is a usually a machine nearby that converts paper money to cpoins. They often work.
Luggae carts in the train stationa require a 2 CHF coin to release them frioom their queue; it is returned when yoyu plug the connecting chain back in at another queue or station . orks wel. Most of them lok lind of clumsy, because they have a mechanism underneath that lets tem go up and down escalators ( moving stairs) with luggae aboard. The same carts at the airport are free…no coin required. Don’t overload, they tip with the escalator and luggage piled too high on top can fall off.
Their are ATM Machines at the many many banks and in main stations, as well as on some busy streets in main cities. They are run by banks, and common ones are from Credit Suisse, UBS, Raiffeisen ( more common than others in the countryside), and some of the cantonal banks, such a s ZKB ( Zürich Kantonal Bank).
http://www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/atmforex-at-zurich-airport
http://www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/atm-chf-zurich-airport
http://www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/best-way-to-get-the-swiss-currency
Switzerland is a very safe and honest country in general. However, as the population of immigrants has expanded over the last 20 years, petty crime has begun too occur. It is very rare. I recall the public indignation and letters to the editors of newspapers about how the sky was falling, and Switzerland will never be the same, about 20 years ago, when signs appeared in Geneva Airport to caution travelers to “Watch your luggage.”
However, in the larger cities carry cash somewhere where it cannot easily be reached. In the countryside, there is almost no petty crime, and the Swiss are famous for finding a way to return lost items to their owners. I dropped a small paper pocket notebook full of addresses and personal notes, phone numbers, etc. on the street in Bern a few years ago. Someone found it and mailed it to me in the USA!
I sent back the cost of postage +extra, risking a 10CHF note in an opaque envelope.
This is a useful page:
http://www.myswissalps.com/ab outswitzerland/practic al
Slowpoke
Hi Slowpoke
Thank you for your post and the attached links. Kindly pardon me for my naivety but I freak out when dealing with money. I have some more questions of you related to this aspect and some of them might be silly. Every time that I have travelled out of Australia, I have always got travellers card from my bank here and therefore I am trying to better understand your post.
I gather from your post that I must carry some AUD in cash with me which I can exchange for the Swiss Francs at any of the ATMs. I’m sorry if this sounds silly, so if I put the AUD in the ATM, it’ll exchange it for the Swiss currency and I don’t have to go to a bank for the exchange?
If I was to run out of this cash, could I use my debit or credit card to exchange some more money? Would I need to go to a bank for this?
Would be grateful if you could please explain it again.
Monica
Hello Monica,
You don’t need to carry AUD.
When I travelled to Switzerland from Australia I took some CHF and Euros (as I was arriving in Germany) from Australia as “loose change”. I got the money from the local bank. There was a short lead time.
Then we used a travel card loaded with Euros (I couldn’t find a bank that provided ability to load card with CHF). Using the travelcard I had no problem getting CHF cash from ATMs when required or paying for hotels with the card. The card eliminated currency exchange fees which our bank (Which bank?) charge for credit card transactions. I even used the card to pay for Swiss Travel Pass from Australia to avoid transaction costs.
Swiss ATMs seem to be mainly at banks but also in some supermarkets.
You certainly won’t have much issue finding bank machines in Switzerland. 🙂
I would, as Rockoyster suggests, take some Swiss Francs with you from Australia and then use a credit card or withdraw Swiss Francs from an ATM when needed with a debit card.
Hi Lucas and Rockoyster –
I agree with you and Rockoyster, of course. 😉
I have not seen many or any machines that take foreign currency and convert it to CHF……maybe at an airport……….of course, I have not looked for such.
The ATM machines of major Swiss banks, at least in major cites/major train staions, will give y0iu cash in CHF and in Euros. Useful if traveling on to the rest of Europe. And, many plaes -especially in tourist destinations – will accept Euros, but they choose the exchange rate and you will get your change in CHF.
The Bellevue in Wengen is run carefully with every thought to avoiding unnecessary costs, while doing a very good job on the excellent hospitality that Frau Graf-Engi and team provide.. I enjoy watching how the hotel is run. So, if they can avoid the bank fees for accepting a credit card – on the order of 2% in the USA, at least – they will prefer cash, as they said. That is also why I book directly with hotels, inns, etc. It saves them a fee from the booking services. All are happy to accept cash but almost everyone recognizes the need to accept credit cards.
I would only carry a small amount of cash, but some is always needed in Switzerland.
Slowpoke
Hi Rockoyster, Lucas
Thank you for your response and guidance. I wish I had known about buying the STP with a travel card! I have already paid a huge transaction cost for the same and it’s been three days now I haven’t yet been emailed my pass even though the Happy Rail’s initial and the only email mentioned that I would be emailed the pass within a day. Have my fingers crossed for it now!
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