[Warits126]

2 June 2022 at 0:09:58 #827386

Hi Everybody,

I am planning for my family trip.

I would like to know if it is possible to take a Gotthard Panorama Express from Lucerne to Milan central station.

I noticed the Gotthard Panorama Express starts from Lucerne lake at 11 am, but if I want to skip the boat and go directly from Lucerne train station. I have suitcases and 2 children.

What time do I have to be at Arth-Goldau and board the Gotthard Panorama Express train there?

How to get from Lugano to Milan?

Does the train from Lucerne to Milan via Goeschenen route have the same route with Gotthard Panorama?

If I have Swiss Travel Pass which ticket do I have to buy?

Thank you.

WJ

[Removed user]

2 June 2022 at 0:54:29 #942735

There is little point in using the Gotthard Panorama Express – see my ‘Mythbuster’ below

The Gotthard railway was built as a main line railway to revolutionise north – south travel in the late 19th century, not as a scenic railway. There are some scenic sections but if your main aim is to travel north – south it is faster to get the express train through the base tunnel (GBE) (the longest and deepest in the world) , but you still see plenty of scenery north of Altdorf and south of Biasca

From Luzern you can either get the inter city train to Lugano via the GBE once every 2 hours (eg 08.18, 10.18 and so on), or take the slower Treno Gottardo also every 2 hours (eg 07.18, 09.18 and so on

On trains via the base tunnel change at Bellinzona or Lugano for a train to Milano. From the Treno Gottardo, change at Bellinzona. Alternatively about twice a day in the afternoon there are direct Eurocity trains Luzern – Milano

Gotthard Panorama Express (GPE) mythbuster

The existence of the GPE is questionable since the SOB railway took over the old Gotthard railway (ie the mountain route via Goeschenen – Airolo) passenger trains with the ‘Treno Gottardo‘ service.

The GPE was only established when SBB, under public pressure, invented it after refusing to provide a regular ‘express’ passenger service over the old mountain route once the Gotthard Base Tunnel had been opened, SBB (FFS) gave up all but a glorified commuter passenger service with quite spartan trains. If a lake boat trip is part of your itinerary, any lake boat to Fluelen will connect with the hourly Treno Gottardo train on the Gotthard route.

My personal opinion on the GPE is that, whilst it might be a good ‘fit’ for organised tour parties, it is not worth the bother for independent travellers choosing their own itinerary, for the following reasons:

* The regular ‘regional’ service, which for a few years was only available on fairly spartan glorified commuter trains is now operated by the SOB company using its bang up to date ‘Traverso’ electric trains under the ‘Treno Gottardo’ banner

* It is first class only, reservation obligatory and with supplementary fare – all of which gets you very little mores than available on the Treno Gottardo

* The old Gotthard mountain route has rather lost its ‘romance’ since all the main international passenger and hug freight trains were diverted through the base tunnel. The ‘romance effect‘ of travelling on the old route was in part due to the fact that your train would interact with other trains on the line so that you might see a train way above you then a few minutes late it would pass by and then be below you, this doesn’t happen now with so few trains on the line

* Although there are two or three sets of spirals, the line is in valleys (nowadays shared with the concrete motorway) so you don’t see many high mountain peaks.

[Warits126]

2 June 2022 at 1:42:32 #942736

Hi 1960man

I plan to travel on 7/3/22 sunday

Thank you for your input. I look up the schedule and noticed there is 7 minute to change the platform at Arth-Goldau from 6 to platform 3 via rapperswil SG departure at 9.39 am. Will that have enough time to do that?

The other option via direct Lugano departure at 10.18 from lucern, this one will have almost 1 hr at lugano same platform 1.

Those 2 options should be covered by swiss pass until Chiasso station. Which route has a better view? Will both of them go to the base tunnel?

When I buy a ticket from Chiasso to Milan from italy train website, do I have to match ticket that same departure time from my current train when they arrive at Chiasso. (I already changed the train at Arth-Goldau or lugano station).

Should I buy Eurocity or Trenord train? Which one is better/more flexible?

Thank you

[Removed user]

2 June 2022 at 7:25:00 #942737

Hi WJ and welcome to MySwissAlps.com!

Many people like the Gotthard Panorama Express experience, so I recommend reconsidering it. You can read about the route here: http://www.myswissalps.com/gotthardpanoramaexpress/gettingthere. If you have a Swiss Travel Pass you do not need to buy a ticket, but you still need to reserve your seats.

May I ask how old are your children? If they are under 16 they will travel for free with the Swiss Family Card. You get this Card for free if you buy the Swiss Travel Pass.

You can find the schedule of the Gotthard Panorama Express (or other trains too) in the timetable. If you are not familiar with the SBB timetable, make sure to start here: http://www.myswissalps.com/timetable. Search for the train schedules between Flüelen and Lugano. Trains
labeled PE (Panorama Express) are the Gotthard Panorama Express.

7 minutes of change is enough. Short connections times are part of the effective Swiss train system. If the timetable shows short connection – then it is doable.

Sorry, I am not familiar with the Italian passes. But as you are going to Italy, this might be useful for you: http://www.myswissalps.com/traintickets/italy

Take care,

Ildiko

[Arno]

2 June 2022 at 12:24:25 #942738

Hi Warits126,

The Gotthard Panorama Express train leaves from Arth-Goldau at 13:40 and arrives in Lugano at 16:41. You could be in Milan by 18:17. The link under “Information on other websites” at https://www.myswissalps.com/gotthardpanoramaexpress/gettingthere will get you to an overview of Gotthard Panorama Express boat and train times.

I would personally prefer the Gotthard Panorama Express route over the Gotthard base tunnel route. It’s a scenic stretch with great railway engineering. You can choose from Treno Gottardo regional trains or Gotthard Panorama Express trains. I took the Gotthard Panorama Express train myself and enjoyed it a lot! But it depends on your personal preferences, and you’ll also have to consider which connection suits your preferred departure and arrival times. Please see the options described under “Regular trains and boats versus the official Gotthard Panorama Express” at https://www.myswissalps.com/gotthardpanoramaexpress.

If you’re checking connections in the general Swiss timetable, this is how to differentiate between the Gotthard Panorama Express route and the Gotthard base tunnel route:

• The timetable shows the quickest connections by default. That’s the Gotthard base tunnel route. So if you only enter “Lucerne” as your departure station and “Milano” as your arrival station, the suggested connections will use the Gotthard base tunnel. This also goes for the 10:18 departure from Lucerne you mentioned. You can double-check which route is used by clicking on a connection. It will show the stations along the route and “Gotthard-Basistunnel” will be mentioned there. By the way, I don’t see a 1-hour transfer time in Lugano for that connection. Arrival at Lugano would be 11:58, departure from Lugano to Milan at 12:02.
• If you want to find connections using the Gotthard Panorama Express stretch in the mountains, you can enter a “via-station”. This could be Airolo for example. If you click on such a connection, it will show “Gotthard-Panoramastrecke” between Göschenen and Airolo.
• If you specifically want to search for the Gotthard Panorama Express train, you can best enter each leg separately: Lucerne – Arth Goldau, then Arth-Goldau – Lugano via Airolo, then Lugano – Milano. The train departing from Arth Goldau at 13:40 with the PE label as described by Ildikó is the Gotthard Panorama Express train.

The information in the blue “Timetable” block at http://www.myswissalps.com/gotthardpanoramaexpress/gettingthere might be useful too.

[Warits126]

2 June 2022 at 14:26:14 #942739

Hi Ildiko and Arno

Thank you for your information.

Here what I found

Luzern to Artho Goldau 12.18 to 12.45 pm,

Arth Goldau at 13:40 to Lugano 16.41,

Lugano 16.55 to milan 18.17. RegioExpress 25529 (17.32 to 6.50 by EuroCity 321 but has to make a seat reservation)

Is this the least amount of train change if I choose to go with PE?

I only need to make a seat reservation for Arth Goldau at 13:40 to Lugano 16.41 PE? May I know how to do it.

I also need to buy a ticket for chiasso to milan to match the time of departure for each route?

Look complicated.

Thank you once again.

[Arno]

2 June 2022 at 17:23:58 #942740

Hi again!

Yes, if you opt to take the Gotthard Panorama Express train, those are the correct routes and departure times. This is what you need if you choose this route:

• a seat reservation for the Gotthard Panorama Express train. Note that you’ll also need a class upgrade if you have a 2nd class Swiss Travel Pass. You’ll find explanation and purchase options here: https://www.myswissalps.com/gotthardpanoramaexpress/tickets. Here’s a direct link if you like: https://www.happyrail.com/en/pass/europe/switzerland/passholder-fares-gotthard-panorama-express. Select Arth-Goldau from the drop-down list first, and choose the 13:40 connection Arth-Goldau – Lugano. Pick a “2nd class” fare if you have a 2nd class Swiss Travel Pass: that price includes both the seat reservation as well as the required class upgrade. Select “1st class” if you have a 1st class Swiss Travel Pass: that price consists of the seat reservation only.
• an additional ticket for Chiasso-Milan. The regional train you plan to take from Lugano doesn’t require seat reservations. You can buy a normal ticket. As far as I know this type of regional Italian tickets is valid during a certain time slot, e.g. 4 hours. You can arrange for it at a Swiss railway station or online (https://www.myswissalps.com/traintickets/switzerland/price). If you prefer to buy it online in advance, you could try https://www.thetrainline.com/trains/switzerland for example. Enter Chiasso-Milano Centrale for your travel date and look for the train leaving from Chiasso at 17:31.

Hope this helps!

[Warits126]

2 June 2022 at 17:48:17 #942741

Hi Arno

Do I have to buy a ticket for my children age 10 and 12 for Gotthard Panorama Express train?

With the swiss pass 2 class, the ticket is still 58 CHF per person?

Does swiss pass price cheaper if you purchase in advance or it is a fix rate regardless of the time of purchase?

Do I have to validate the ticket before take the train from Arth-Goldau to Lugano?

Thank you

[Removed user]

2 June 2022 at 18:48:45 #942742

Hi Warits126,

if you have a Swiss Travel Pass, you can get the Swiss Family Card for your children (under 16 years old) for free. With that they travel for free. No ticket is needed (only seat reservation for the panoramic trains).

Yes, if you have a 2nd class Swiss Travel Pass, then the seat reservation is 58 CHF per person. (That price includes both the seat reservation as well as the required class upgrade)

The price of the Swiss Travel Pass is fixed, it doesn’t matter when you buy it. See the prices here: http://www.myswissalps.com/swisstravelpass/price

No, you do not have to validate your seat reservation. Regarding the Swiss Travel Pass, here you can read about how to use it: http://www.myswissalps.com/swisstravelpass/howtouse.

Take care,

Ildiko

[Arno]

2 June 2022 at 18:53:12 #942743

Hi Warits126,

Your children don’t need tickets for rides within Switzerland. They travel along for free on all routes with the free Swiss Family Card: https://www.myswissalps.com/swissfamilycard. But they do need their own paid reservation for the Gotthard Panorama Express. Yes, the price you mentioned is correct and includes both the seat reservation as well as the class upgrade for your 2nd class Swiss Travel Passes.

If this stretches your budget, you can still consider a regional train (Treno Gottardo) on the same mountain route instead.

The Swiss Travel Pass price is fixed. It’s easiest to buy it online. That’s explained here: https://www.myswissalps.com/train/ticketspasses/practical/wheretobuy. You’ll usually receive your digital passes within minutes after ordering. Options are listed at https://www.myswissalps.com/swisstravelpass/price.

There’s no need to validate anything. Your Swiss Travel Pass and Swiss Family Card can be used right away: https://www.myswissalps.com/swisstravelpass/howtouse. Should you order Gotthard Panorama Express reservations as explained above, you’ll receive ready-to-use e-rickets as well. You can print digital passes/tickets if you want, or just store and show them on your phone

[Warits126]

2 June 2022 at 19:21:57 #942744

I feel bad ask so many questions and really appreciate everybody time and help.

How do I make a seat reservation for my children if I purchase only 2 adults ticket form happyrail website? Will it allow me to make a seat reservation after I purchase the ticket for Gotthard Panorama Express from happyrail website.

Does SBB have a ticket for Gotthard Panorama Express or it has to be purchased from happyrail website?

Should I buy the swiss pass from happyrail or SBB website?

Thank you

[Arno]

3 June 2022 at 15:29:49 #942745

Hi Warits126!

No problem, we’re here to help!

You don’t need tickets for the Gotthard Panorama Express: the ride will be covered by the Swiss Travel Pass for the adults and the Swiss Family Card for the children. You only need 4 seat reservations including class upgrades for the 2 adults and the 2 children.

I’m not sure if Gotthard Panorama Express seat reservations are available on the SBB website. You could also have a look at http://www.gotthard-panorama-express.ch/, but as far as I can tell you can’t get reservations including class upgrades there. They’re referring to an e-mail address for class upgrades. So HappyRail might be easiest: https://www.happyrail.com/en/pass/europe/switzerland/passholder-fares-gotthard-panorama-express.

There are several purchase options for the Swiss Travel Pass. Trustworthy options are listed at https://www.myswissalps.com/swisstravelpass/price and any of those is fine. HappyRail’s prices are slightly lower than the “official” fares: https://www.happyrail.com/en/pass/europe/switzerland/swiss-travel-pass-consecutive. If you prefer purchasing at SBB, then you’d best use their official tourist webshop Switzerland Travel Centre: https://shop.switzerlandtravelcentre.com/product/swissPass. That’s easier than buying from the domestic SBB website.

[Warits126]

4 June 2022 at 13:55:28 #942746

Hi Arno

Thank you for your information.