Itinerary advice from St Moritz to Montreux

Hi there, am loving this forum it's so informative!! I would appreciate some advice please.

We are travelling in Switzerland arriving from Pais to Zurich on sat 16th April & at the moment supposed to be on a tour until 24th April when we start our independent travel

- We have booked ourselves 2 nights Lucerne,4 nights Lauterbrunnen, then down to Stresa on sat 30th April. At the moment there's a possibility our tour may be cancelled due to lack of no's & so looking at alternatives. Another company does one on same dates similar but not as good itinerary for quite a lot more $. We are therefore looking at a similar option independently( we like tours to get to meet people & have a break from lugging the luggage as we will be travelling in total for 6 weeks) this is what I am considering:

- arrive Zurich on 16/4 from Paris then head straight to Lucerne arriving afternoon (3 nights - 2 full days... Do Pilatus or Titlis or Stanserhorn-recommendations for this time of year please.

Rail to St Moritz 19/4 on Albula Line - is this direct or require a change & is this difficult with luggage? -1 or 2 nights.. This is where I'm a bit confused as on the tour we were doing the Bernina Express to Tirano then coach to Lugano(for 1 night) then coach & overnight in Zermatt.

So I'm looking at the alternatives on our own for our time frame. We need to be in Lauterbrunnen on Tues 26/4. So thought would like 2 nights Zermatt & 2 or 3 nights Montreux area ( depends if do 1 or 2 nights at St Moritz or 1 night Lugarno.)

Most sensible & easy thing appears skip Bernina Express & just do Glacier Express St. Moritz to Zermatt. However can you suggest a way to incorporate it in my timeframe as it looks wonderful ( do we do 2 nights St Moritz & do it as a return day trip- or is this too long on a train when we would have the 71/2 hr Glacier Express trip next day) or can you see how we could incorporate it in our ongoing travels with luggage in timeframe ie to Lugano. How long is this trip & then how do we get from Lugano to Zermatt by train not coach. After Montreux we would head to Lauterbrunnen

- the other questions are... Are all of the train stations user friendly with luggage- ie not a lot of stairs to negotiate & is it necessary to prebook these rail trips well in advance to secure a seat & is there additional charges over the Swiss Rail Pass.

Thank you so much.. We have a bit to weigh up before we make any definite decisions so really appreciate any advice that will help with this.

Hi Travellyn -

Welcome to the forum

<<"have a break from lugging the luggage">>

Here is a start:

www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/lugg age-and-flight-luggage.html

Your questions and comments require more thought than I am able t o provide at the moment, but, I am completely sure that you do not need to book a tour in order to avoid schlepping luggage in Switzerland...as long as you are willing to pay Swiss prices for moving your bags. ;-)

And - in general, you do not need reservations on Swiss trains. Exceptions are special routes or services....which I can not comment on at the moment until I study your query. Even then, there are usually "non-special" trains covering the same routes.

Slowpoke.

<<"Rail to St Moritz 19/4 on Albula Line - is this direct or require a change & is this difficult with luggage? -1 or 2 nights.. This is where I'm a bit confused as on the tour we were doing the Bernina Express to Tirano then coach to Lugano(for 1 night) then coach & overnight in Zermatt.">>

Not direct.

Learn to use the timetable...it will help you immensely:

www.myswissalps.com/ti metable

and a map:

map.search.ch

Slowpoke

Hi slowpoke, thanks for that. Yes I have been studying numerous maps & the train timetables. I notice there's several changes between Lucerne & St Moritz & was a couple of different options.

Do you think 1 route is more scenic than the other? & also stations easier to negotiate with our luggage over another when changing for tight connections. Also if we did decided to do 2 nights in st Moritz & do the Bernina express as a 1/2 day trip to Tirano & back

1) from an insiders perspective, is it a very similar trip to the glacier express scenery wise or vary enough to make it worthwhile?

2) I notice it leaves from Pontresina which is a 9 min train ride hourly by the looks of things from St Moritz.

Do you find they time this train to coincide with the departure of the Bernina Express? I'm thinking that that would be the plan but I'm from Sydney Australia where our train system isn't so reliable haha so just checking.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Hi Travellyn,

As for which mountain to visit: they're all wonderful in April; in fact they're wonderful year-round. More important is the weather of the day. You need clear skies or high clouds in order to enjoy the views. You can find these mountains, and more, through myswissalps.com/ lucerne/ activities. Please have a look there to see what interests you most.

Like Slowpoke said, seat reservations are not required, please see myswissalps.com/train/ reservations.

On your first day, are you actually planning to visit Zurich? If not, you can get off the train from Paris in Basel and take a direct train to Lucerne. That will save you some time.

These pages might be helpful too:

• myswissalps.com/ train/practical/ luggage
• myswissalps.com/ plantrip/ doityourself

Thankyou Arno I will investigate that option from Paris. What about from Lucerne to St Moritz though? Do you think 1 route is better & or easier than the other? Also which location is recommended to stay in st Moritz to be close to rail access ( do all trains come and go from same station in St Moritz( ie train from Lucerne, the train to head off to do the Bernina Express & the Glacier Express) ? Thankyou

Hi travellyne -

Re-

St. Moritz train station -

map.search.ch/?x=122416m&y=-37536m&z=128

Only one station.

Most of the town is up the hill from the station.

Which route are you looking at for the trip from Luzern?

I'll tell you about ease of luggage transfer if you specify which stations you will change rains at.

Slowpoke.

Hi Slowpoke, great map reference Thankyou for that. I can see that Dorf is a better location for train access than Bad. With regard to trains from Lucerne to St Moritz I've seen that there's an option of 1 that goes .. Lucerne, Thalwil, Chur, St M & another option is Lucerne, Zurich, Landquart, St M- which I had read somewhere that the trip from Landquart to St M is particularly scenic. However when I look at a map these areas don't seem that far from the other area( Zurich & Thalwil Landquart & Chur) so do they cover much the same area for scenery? Which option would you choose for scenery & ease of train change over? I notice the Zurich route is about 1/2 hr quicker but aside from that. Thanks

Which is your priority - easy baggage transfer, or scenery? I am having a hard time understanding that.

You may not have to choose, but lack of clarity makes a response harder.

More later on your specific routes.

Considering your earlier concerns -

The Swiss Rail system works hard to make changes of trains fast and easy. That is why and how a 4 minute connection is standard...unless specified other wise in the timetable. And, connections are synchronized...so, indeed, without looking it up, the train from St. Moritz to Pontresina will almost surely connect with the Bernina Express. Or, take a train a few minutes earlier if you are concerned.

The timetable will make that clear. Count on it.

(Careful...there are two Pontresina stations ( last time I was there, anyway.) ) Look at a map.)

When possible, the inbound and outbound trains are on two sides of the same platform. Arth Goldau works that way. Many stations have only a small number of platforms, e.g., one. That makes it easy. Places where that is not so simple tend to be where multiple routes converge - Spiez and Zug come to mind.

I know that you are concerned with luggage transfer.

Please consider the apabilities of the SBB to reliably deliver luggage. Instead of paying a tour operator to do it, you might wish to pay the SBB.

If you use the timetable, for which you have a link, and look at the details, you can see what platform numbers are used for inbound and outbound. If you cannot see that on a smartphone, try a desktop or laptop for better details.

Most stations have a map on the SBB website,or try the map references I gave you earlier to understand the station layouts. SBB is better, if they have a picture for a particular station.

I'll give more detail tomorrow when I get up. Station by station.

Meanwhile, unless you cannot transfer all of your bags in one process, without going back for a second trip, don't worry too much about it. It will work. The Swiss want your expensive travel to work well.

<<"I can see that Dorf is a better location for train access than Bad.">>

Bad is on the flats. Dorf is up on a hill, closer to the station. Neither one has easy for hauling a lot of baggage. If 'Bad" pay an excessive cost for a cab. If "Dorf" pay an excessive cost for a hotel. And,cliimb with your luggage.

;-(

Slowpoke

Thanks slowpoke your replies are amazing and so appreciated. It's really nice that you go to so much effort. I think scenery wins out on the problem of carting baggage it's only if there's lots of stairs to negotiate.😩

<<" I think scenery wins out on the problem of carting baggage it's only if there's lots of stairs to negotiate.😩">>

I'll work on that. You should not be concerned...unless you need a pack mule for your luggage. Train stations do not have facilities to feed and water pack mules. ;-(

Slowpoke

Here is Chur

.www.sbb.ch/content/dam /infrastruktur/trafima ge/bahnhofplaene/plan-chur-a4.pdf#?lang=de

There are elevators near each of the stairwells...just to the left on the diagram. Some of the "stairwells" are escalators.

What platforms would you have for inbound and outbound?

At Zürich, the luggage carts can ride the escalators...and, there are elevators.

Landquart is too small to have a station map.

I'll look further

Slowpoke

A list of suggested hotels in St. Moritz can be found here: myswissalps.com/ stmoritz/ hotels.

Hi Travellyn -

<<"With regard to trains from Lucerne to St Moritz I've seen that there's an option of 1 that goes .. Lucerne, Thalwil, Chur, St M & another option is Lucerne, Zurich, Landquart, St M- which I had read somewhere that the trip from Landquart to St M is particularly scenic. However when I look at a map these areas don't seem that far from the other area( Zurich & Thalwil Landquart & Chur) so do they cover much the same area for scenery? Which option would you choose for scenery & ease of train change over? I notice the Zurich route is about 1/2 hr quicker but aside from that. Thanks">>

Sorry to keep doing this in pieces... I'm having a fair number of interruptions.

The SBB has most of the answers on their web site. Details follow.

Main Stations -

Chur has elevators and may have escalators, as noted in the map in my earlier post. The walkway between train platforms is over the tracks.

Luzern and Zürich:

Both of these stations have a level floor plan for the main tracks. In Luzern...that is all the tracks. In Zürich there are several tracks at lower levels, all accessible by escalators and , as far as I know - also by elevators. You will not need to use the lower levels.

Main tracks 3 through 18 in Zürich all terminate at the same railhead. Tracks 1 and 2 do not come in quite as far and require a few hundred meters extra walk to reach their railheads. Sometimes. Luzern trains have been on 1 and 2, but recently, they seem to have moved to the "regular" tracks numbered 3 to 18.

For some reason I cannot remember Luzern's luggage cart arrangement; however, it is almost surely the same as at Zürich. At Zürich there are queues of heavy duty carts every 30 to 50 meters along the platforms, near the luggage lockers, and near the left luggage office, and at station exits and entrances. The carts are chained together. There is a coin slot on the fastener, which takes a 2 CHF coin, and maybe a 1 euro coin. You insert your coin and wiggle the connector if the connector does not "pop" out of the chain. The cart becomes free of the queue. When you have finished with the cart, perhaps at another platform, you plug the connector back in at another queue. You coin pops out (usually) - sometimes you have to wiggle or pry a bit. Or, sacrifice 2 CHF. ;-(

These carts can go up and down escalators while fully loaded with many bags. They have a gripping mechanism under the cart which grabs the steps of the escalator. Same at Zürich airport, where the carts don't need a coin. They are free.

Zürich is a large station and it , like Luzern, is terminal station. The tracks come to a dead end, and the trains reverse to go back out. The trains may be long. Try to be near the front of the train....usually, that is where the first class cars are on those routes, but, the closer to the front the better in second class. Then, your walk to the rail head and across to another track is shortened. Recently, Zürich has added an undertrack mid-platform passage for the main tracks. It is served by escalators and elevators. If it is near your car when the train stops, you can use it to go from platform to platform without walking all the way to the rail head.

www.sbb.ch/content/dam /infrastruktur/trafima ge/bahnhofplaene/plan-zuerich-hb-a4.pdf#?lang=en

Luzern also has mid-platform underground connector. I do not see elevators there. I don't think that you will need it. There are elevators and escalators at the rail head.

www.sbb.ch/content/dam /infrastruktur/trafima ge/bahnhofplaene/plan-luzern-a4.pdf#?lang=en

Luzern to Zürich -

For 19/4 I checked the morning travel routes for a couple of hours. The trains arrive from Luzern on tracks 5, 6, 7, or 8. These are all on the main floor tracks.

Zürich to Chur or Landquart.

Trains to Chur leave on 8, or 10

As you note, Chur and Landquart are close to each other on the same main rail line. Chur is the last major station, although the tracks obviously continue to the south and west. Branch lines at Landquart and Chur lead to the east. The loop line from Landquart rejoins the "main" line about 10 km beyond Chur at Bonaduz. The Albula line branches off the loop , closer to Chur than to Landquart. The Albula line is a nice ride. Whether you pick it up from connecting through Landquart or through Chur may make some difference in the scenery, but I would not let that drive my choice. I'd go by the schedule choices, plus the clear knowledge of the station lay out at Chur.

I have posted the map of Chur station earlier. Escalators and elevators. I don't recall if they have luggage carts like Zürich's.

For Landquart, which is a small station, I had to look at :

map.search.ch/?x=-594m&y=-92m&z=64&poi=mobility, viasuisse,zug&poi_id=b c9b548a3e17e7e7be0b-mobility

That map does not disclose how to go from platform to platform, nor the platform numbers. The train from Zürich at 1007 arrives Landquart on track 2 and your connection departs on track 8. ( 9 minutes connection.) Absent more detailed knowledge, I'd avoid that connection, since the one through Chur is much much more convenient ( see below.) A desk clerk at any manned station, and certainly at Luzern or Zürich, should be able to tell you the platform/connection arrangements and print you an itinerary card with the details. Do it ahead of time if you want time to study it.

On 19/4 morning trains from Zürich at XX37 arrive at Chur on track 9 and depart on track 10. Those are on two sides of the same platform. See map.

You have six minutes to cross the platform. No problem.

I have gone through all these details so that you can see how to figure out the connections and use the SBB website (or a map).

Therw will be little difference in scenry via landquart or vis chur.

Thalwil-

Thalwil is a small station south of Zürich, which allows you to save distance - if you go into Zürich then out again from Luzern to Zürich to Chur, you pass through Thalwil twice - inbound and outbound. It is a small station.

I have not had a chance to look it up. It might work well... especially if it gives you a bit longer connection time.. It could save time on the total trip. On the other hand, If you want to go through Zürich due to sure knowledge of the station, take a train from Luzern that gets you in at least 20 minutes ahead of the xx37 departure from Zürich for Chur. Then you can have a leisurely transfer. During commuter hours the lines from Zug north to Zürich may run a few minutes late. That is a good reason not to change at Zug - some trains do that - and to allow a little extra time for the change of trains at Zürich.

Paris -

Never done it, but I've been told the gare du Est or du Nord....not sure which one....has miserable set of stairs. It came up in a conversation about traveling from Paris to Zürich or Luzern one time.

If you go from Paris to Luzern instead of Zürich you may change at Basel or Olten. Both are major stations and should have Trafimage maps available on the SBB web site.. Did not check.

Let us know if you need more help on your routing. Barring inadvertent omissions, what I have provided should be enough to let you work out any other trip by yourself...but there are always unforeseen complications until you actually do it. ;-(

it should certainly let you figure out a change at Zürich on the way to Luzern from Paris.

Slowpoke

Re. the last discussion,between slowpoke and travellen, I have traveled through Switzerland several times, fortunately with an able bodied son. I would not have been able to hoist my suitcases onto the majority of trains without him. They are very steep with narrow ladder size steps. Sometimes up to 3 or even 4 steps. Could the trains have one compartment with no steps for people with luggage? This is my only problem with this wonderful country.(by the way, I try to travel as lightly as possible but as we're usually away from home for 6-7 weeks, we do need some luggage)

<<"I would not have been able to hoist my suitcases onto the majority of trains without him. They are very steep with narrow ladder size steps. Sometimes up to 3 or even 4 steps.">>

Hi Aussie -

Time to come back for another visit. ;-)

Many of the trains now have flat floor loading level with the platforms. They have replaced many of the older cars, especially on the major routes. When I am traveling from Zürich Airport to Zürich upon arrival with heavy luggage, I skip any of the few remaining trains with older high floors if one happens to be the first available, and wait a few minutes for the next one. It is never a long wait. Those trains are available in many parts of the country.

Unfortunately, not all have that feature. The double-decker trains do. And, you are right about the problem - the fix is slowly happening. To accommodate them, many tracks and tunnels had to be revised, especially on the lines to Geneva. And, platform heights sometimes need to be adjusted.

I do not believe that they are available on the meter gauge lines,such as the Rhaetian Railway in the Engadin. There are still quite a fewmeter gauge lines operating in Switzerland.

The trams in Zürich are moving to a "level entry" floor as well....I'd guess the conversion is about 50% complete.

The technology to put one "level entry" car on a train with the older cars would be pretty complicated. That means expensive, of course. I guess we'll have to wait till all the trains are like the newest ones.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ IC_2000

In the eighties, you could hand in your bag at the luggage counter, and it would travel on the same train with you. Then you waited a couple of minutes after you got off the train, and picked it up at the luggage office. That service disappeared, as has the staff at many smaller stations, but luggage transport by the trains has come back to some degree.

When I travel extensively in Switzerland, I use that service. For some stations you can get your bag on the night of the day that you travel. Even delivery to your door. That service is not cheap. However, since I try to stay for at least two nights at any location, I often use the slower service to move a heavy bag, and travel with a light one with one or two days' supplies.

That works well for my mode of travel, but I do have to return to the station to get my heavy bag.

And, those services are not cheap, although the one that I use costs "only" 12 CHF per bag.

They are very reliable.

www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/lugg age-and-flight-luggage/luggage-product-comparison.html

Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke,

Thank you so much for your very detailed answer... Really appreciated. It's given us a bit to think about. I just have memories of when we travelled quite extensively in Italy by train in 2014 & yes we had the issue that Aussie speaks of, of getting the bags up onto the train, but it was more the platforms with no lifts and a long staircase that was in my thought process. As I said in my 1st post we are facing the distinct possibility that a coach trip we had booked as being cancelled & so looking at the option of independent travel. Thinking that maybe this is the way we should have gone in the 1st place but the company of others is nice too. We do have our own travel also regardless booked... 2 nights Lucerne & 4 nights Lauterbrunnen where we plan to visit Grindelwald, Gimmelwald, Murren, Schilthorn, Jungfrau among places( of course weather dependant). Can you just tell me, honestly, seen as though you have such extensive knowledge... If the coach tour goes ahead we will be doing the Bernina Express from St Moritz to Tirano then bus to Lugano( o/night accom) then via lake Maggiore & then the Simplon Pass to Zermatt for o/night accom. Is this scenery covered going to be anywhere as breathtaking as what we would cover with the Glacier Express.?

Thanks again so much regards Lyn

Hi Travellyn -

Glad it helps. The resources available to plan a trip in Switzerland are extensive, and it takes a while to learn how to use them. My Swiss Alps does an excellent job of getting you started, but there is a lot more that you can use if you work hard at digging out the details.

Regarding your question -

<<"Can you just tell me, honestly, seen as though you have such extensive knowledge... If the coach tour goes ahead we will be doing the Bernina Express from St Moritz to Tirano then bus to Lugano( o/night accom) thenvia lake Maggiore & then the Simplon Pass to Zermatt for o/night accom. Is this scenery covered going to be anywhere as breathtaking as what we would cover with the Glacier Express.?">>

I'll let Arno or Annika answer that. I don't have the perspective of a first time traveler.

It has been many years since I rode the GEx. Same for the Bernina route from Pontresina to Tirano. I've ridden from St. Moritz to Scuol many times.

Part of the GEx route overlaps the last part of your route. (Brig to Zermatt).

My choice for the best scenic "Main line" routes to ride in Switzerland (apart from special mountain excursion lines such as the line from Lauterbrunnen to Kleine Scheidegg and thence to Grindelwald, or the Brienzer Rothorn Line) are the Gotthard Pass line from Flüelen to Bellinzona and the upper Lötschberg line via Kandersteg on the old route from Spiez to Bri9.

I am glad that we did the GEx, but found that 7 hours of mountains in one dose was enough...or, too much. I have visited Switzerland approximately 80 times since 1980, and looking at mountains no longer is sufficient...there has to be more associated with the views. The rail engineering on the Gotthard route is incredible....and, it may not keep running in the same way after this June when the new basis tunnel opens... Just to be safe, I'm going to ride it in May of this year. All my photos are so old that theya re on film. ;-) On the other hand, those valley towns along the route will likely still need some kind of service....

The "Lötschberger" has a rail trail beside it that I have walked. 10-15 times. The Rhone Valley adds to the views. I have attached a few photos I have taken while walking that rail trail, on the south-facing wall (die Südrampe) of the Rhone Valley from Hohtenn to Ausserberg.

The views on the other side of the alps (as the train climbs from Spiez to Kandersteg, where it enters the old, upper tunnel) are quite spectacular, and have more striking mountains to see. There is also a trail along some of that rail line, but I have never walked it.

The Albula Line (part of the Bernina and Glacier Expresses if between Chur and St. Moritz has a nice trail along the stretch from Preda to Bergun, which I have walked. It makes the ride - which is quite nice - even more interesting for me.

So, I do not have the correct perspective to answer your question. Speaking strictly for myself, I would not go out of my way to ride either one for its own sake. Obviously, many others disagree with me. And, they have not seen so many Swiss mountains as I have in the last 25 years. ;-)

Slowpoke

Hello Travellyn,

The itinerary of the tour you've described is certainly scenic, and in my view it's equally beautiful to the views from the Glacier Express. Both routes are different, of course, but stunning in their own ways.

Here are some things you may want to consider: the Glacier Express includes somewhat more friendly green landscapes than the Bernina Express-Lugano-Zermatt variant; the latter focuses more on the southern scenery, which is generally rougher and drier. The Glacier Express allows you to cross several regions within one trip and one day, while staying seated; the alternative you described is a journey in several segments with a couple of changes.

Whichever you pick, you'll enjoy a beautiful trip; no worries. If you can't make up your mind, you could still do both the Bernina Express as well as the Glacier Express. You'd do the Bernina Express only as far as Tirano as a day trip from St. Moritz in that case, returning to St. Moritz the same day, and travel to Zermatt by Glacier Express the next day. Whether that's too much of train traveling, is up to you.

Either way, it looks like a rail pass will help you save money. It seems that quite some long train journeys will be involved, so it makes sense to look into a Swiss Travel Pass. Depending on your finalized itinerary, the 8 day variant may work. Help on finding the right rail pass is provided at our How to choose page.

By the way, it's perfectly doable to plan your own trip and travel independently. Our Do it yourself section provides information and tips.