2 Week itinerary June/July 2017

We are very active folks and love to hike so this looks like fun to us:

Day 1 ORD to ZRH; Arrive 6 am. Train to Guarda and hike a bit to Ftan/Scuol.

Day 2 Train Guarda to Zernez; Post bus to Mustair thru Swiss Natl Park and back. 2nd night in Guarda.

Day 3 Train Guarda to Poschiavo then back to Pontresina...so we get to see the gorgeous scenery (twice) but can fit in that part of the Bernina Express route on a Regional train. 2 nights in Pontresina

Day 4. Hike Muottas Muragl to Alp Languard. Perhaps wander through St. Moritz. Hotel/hostel has free transport pass while we are there...so this is our one flex day not using the 15 Day STP.

Day 5. Train Pontresina to Lugano via Filisur, bus to Menaggio. Only way I could see to fit in that gorgeous part of the rail system. 1 night in Menaggio.

Day 6. C12 Bus to Lugano/train to Bellinzona. Visit Castles and stay in Bellinzona 1 night.

Day 7 Train Bellinzona to Kandersteg through Goschenen/Brig. 2 nights in Kandersteg. Chairlift to Oschinensee.

Day 8. Train Kandersteg - Leuk. Post bus to Leukerbad. Teleferic to Gemmi Pass. Walk down trail along lake to Kandersteg via Stock teleferic. Night in Kandersteg

Day 9. Train Kandersteg to Lauterbrunen. Cable car/train to Murren. Two nights in Murren. Funicular to Allmendhubel and walk to Grutschalp.

Day 10. Possible Schilthorn stopping at Birg for Skyline Walk. Cable car Gimmelwald to Stechelberg then bus to Trummelbach Falls. Night in Murren

Day 11. Optional day for Schilthorn. Flip flop activities for Day 10. Train/cable to Lauterbrunen then trail up to Wengen. 2 nights in Wengen

Day 12 Jungfraujoch 1st am ride? Teleferic Mannlichen. Hike to Kleine Scheidegg. Perhaps take train down to Grindelwald, gondola to First and do the First Walk. Night in Wengen.

Day 13 Optional day Jungfraujoch. Train Kleine Scheidegg to Grindlewald. Bus to Schwarzwaldalp then to Meiringen through Rosenlaui Valley. 2 nights in Meiringen.

Day 14. Funicular to Reichenbach Falls. Hike Aare Gorge...thought about Trift Bridge...but think that is too much. Night in Meiringen

Day 15. Early bus Meiringen to Goschenen. Train Goschenen to Fluelen. Boat to Tellskappelle then Weggis. Night in Weggis. Mt Rigi late afternoon?

Day 16. Mt Rigi early am? Then boat Weggis to Lucerne (been there before so just explore the bridges near RR/harbor. Train on to ZRH. Night in ZRH.

Day 17. Fly home ZRH to ORD. Hotel has van to airport.

I have played with SBB/Post bus schedules and these routes fit . Getting from/to Lugano /Menaggio we will resort to city buses...and getting between the bus station and rail station in Lugano either walk or taxi.

If there is a simpler way that it all fits...love to know it. The Bernina Express bus portion and the Palm Express gave us less time in Menaggio.

Thanks for input,

.

Hi Katie-

Lots to digest in your post.

it is indeed clear that you have worked with the SBB schedules. It sounds like a wonderful and well organized trip.

I have only skimmed your details, and at first glance, it sounds like a busy but possible trip. Each step requires another look for me....later

I have not analyzed for slack times...alternatives for bad weather ( particularly when you plan Alpine hikes). You seem to have that set that option around day 10 through 13.

I suspect that you have noted that from Guarda to the Guarda Station is a significant walk, and that you may choose to rely on the shuttle bus.

In Guarda, for years, we chose to stay at Hotel Piz Buin. They just changed management last season, and we have not been back. We always found it to be relaxing there.

Using some buses with lots of luggage can be a nuisance. I always tell everyone else to travel light, but, by the time I have packed my hiking gear, it gets difficult.

Weggis -

We always stay at least one night at the Hotel Bergsonne in Rigi Kaltbad, whenever we can.

www.bergsonne.ch/main-eng.html

Great kitchen..."slow food". Incredible wine list.

Herr Camps and Frau Camps-Stalder have cut back on their hours and open days, but, if they are open, you might consider that option. If it is cloudy, you go for the food and wine. If it is clear, the views are stunning. The food and wine are still there. ;-) Probably closed Monday and Tuesday.

Kandersteg -

You have some good ideas there. Here is another. We really like this walk, so it could be an option for you:

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/bls-sudrampe-trail

That trail is on the south-facing wall of the Rhonetal, and gets lots of sun. Hot and dry....which makes it a good choice when everywhere else is rainy or cloudy.

For what it is worth, we have been to the Oeschinensee once. We have hiked the Südrampe trail a couple of dozen times.

Luzern-

Day 16 -

Perhaps you could fit in lunch on Hammetschwand?

www.myswitzerland.com/ en-us/buergenstock-hammetschwand-lift.html

www.buergenstock.ch/en /current-opening-hours/hammetschwand-lift

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/the-hammetschwand-lift

A few photos in that last thread

It might be difficult with the disruptions caused by all the construction on Bürgenstock, and so might be better on the next trip, but, I thought I'd mention it. Without a car, the best access used to be by the funicular from Kehrsiten up to Bürgenstock, but I don't think it has restarted yet. That would work well if you come across the lake from Weggis, but going via Luzern and public transport could be time consuming if the funicular is not running yet.

Slowpoke

Oh my heavens...Hammetschwand...looks incredible. Love to try it, if it fits in.

In choir as a child I sang about "From Lucerne to the Weggis fair"....about 40 years ago took a boat trip to Weggis for the day...and have always wanted to stay there. Your suggestion of Rigi Kaltbad is something to look into...it looks beautiful.

We already have reservations for each night ...but with free cancellations so easily changeable. I am wrestling with whether to stay at Guarda Lodge or Romantica Val Tuoi...have reservations at both right now. My sister stayed at Val Tuoi last September and enjoyed it.

The trail along from Kandersteg -Sudrampe - looks great and with good views of the bridges...which would definitely interest my engineer (electrical) husband. Thanks for the idea (and the pictures!) We are hoping for a day hike across Gemmi Pass...but lots of little pieces of transport to fit in.

I truly enjoy your posts...lots of excellent info.

I just wish there was an easier way to spend time in Menaggio ...the BEX bus gets in mid-afternoon coming from Ticino...and the Palm Express is one option, but with the trains we would get to see a few railway engineering feats and still get to Menaggio by 1pm. We only have one night there. My husband voted to spend a night in Bellinzona to see the castles rather than two in Menaggio...so I want to honor that.

Thank you so much.

Hi Katie-

The Südrampe walk was meant as an alternative for bad weather. Or, you might displace the side trip to Oeschinensee.

And, it is quite different from the Gemmi pass hike. However, an engineer and geologist would likely really appreciate a first hand look at the bisse system - die Wasserleitungen. Can't beat the walk across the Bietschtal bridge. ;-) And, a good look at the Luogelkin viaduct reveals its two-stage construction.

The attached pictures show a bit more about Hammetschwand. Might be a duplicate in there. The one from EllenS' post on this forum is good for an overview of the lake.

...and don't forget the Swiss path -

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/the-swiss-path-and-southern-lake-lucerne

Rigi Kaltbad-

Attached are some views from the Hotel Bergsonne. On a clear night up there one year, we watched a lightning storm near Zermatt from our room.

Plus a couple of other images.

There is always too much to see and do for any vacation ....so, plan to come back next year...or in September. ;-)

Slowpoke

Hi Katie -

One more thought-

You might appreciate the SwissTopo website if you do not already know it. .

I have turned on a random selection from the available maps, showing seismic subsoil classes.

Lots more there if you play with the menus. The hiking trails - if you turn them on - are color coded to match the classifications of the Wanderwege.

Slowpoke

Hi Katie-

Day by Day. A start.

<<"Day 1 ORD to ZRH; Arrive 6 am. Train to Guarda and hike a bit to Ftan/Scuol.">>

Day 1- You'll be jet lagged. Get some sleep on the train, although you probably can arrive in Guarda and catch a nap before lunch.

When I was looking at connections, I realized you did not give us dates.

It only matters because late June may still have vestiges of winter at high altitudes. When do you arrive?

If you land at 0600 you'll surely be able to catch the 0718 to Zürich Hauptbahnhof. That is the normal connection suggested by the SBB. That train is particularly crowded on some days in June. You have a ten minute connection at ZHbf to get the 0737 to Landquart. You might be able to catch the 0701, 0703, 0706 or 0713 from ZFH to ZHbf especially if you have a Swiss Travel Pass that does not require buying tickets. Otherwise, you might have to stand for 9 minutes on the 0718.

Note that the timetable gets you to Guarda Station. You have a substantial climb to get up to Guarda. There is a shuttle bus, but i don't know details. It should meet the trains.

We like the 5-6 km walk from Ftan to Ardez....gently downhill, and Ardez is not too far above the station.

There is a nice walk from Motta Naluns to the lift station that is about 400 meters directly above Ftan ( at Ftan Prui). Also, slightly down hill.

Neither one is hard on your knees. Ftan is a nice village to walk through, as is Ardez. We also enjoyed Scuol.

The Luftseilbahn (LSB) from next to Scuol station takes you up to Motta Naluns.

Slowpoke

Ooops- here is the link:

map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&lang=en&bgLa yer=ch.swisstopo.pixel karte-farbe&layers=ch.bav.ha ltestellen-oev,ch.swisstopo.swiss tlm3d-wanderwege,ch.bafu.gef ahren-baugrundklassen&layers _visibility=false,fals e,true&X=198000.00&Y=5 22500.00&zoom=1&layers _opacity=1,1,0.75

And, a re-post of a troublesome image, "Two Gentlemen in Scuol" still would not work. I'll fix it.

Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke,

I'm not sure which problem you encountered, but renaming the file before uploading it might fix it. There is a known issue with duplicate file names in forum attachments. It should be fixed within a couple of weeks.

Hi Slowpoke...I am a map-aholic...and had played a little with the topo site...but LOVE the one you have set up for hikes and transportation stops...perfect! And thanks for the geologic link!

I wasn't comfortable posting exact days we will be gone for security purposes...though I know some buses/trains only run on certain days.

Truly...you think if we arrive at 6:10 am we could be through all the lines in ZRH by 7ish? I had no idea & was giving it atleast 2 hours...it would be WONDERFUL if they are as efficient at that as they are everything else!

I appreciate the ideas on hikes between Scuol and Guarda...definitely will use the bus from station to village. We have found (so far) if we stay awake doing things until about 7-8 pm then sleep about 11-12 hours, we are good to go with our internal clocks reset.

Thanks again!

HI Katie-

<<"Hi Slowpoke...I am a map-aholic...and had played a little with the topo site...but LOVE the one you have set up for hikes and transportation stops...perfect! And thanks for the geologic link!">>

Mapsearch.ch is good for trains and transport stops. Also, other menu items. The problem is that it does not show altitudes.

SwissTopo gives altitudes, fine detail, and color codes the hiking trails according to convention. If you go to the home page,they will tell you about all of their products, including paper maps and a smartphone app.

Another option is to use Switzerland Mobility's website -

map.wanderland.ch/?lang=de&route=all&bgLa yer=pk&resolution=20&X =808720&Y=183640&layer s=Wanderland

The header at the top helps with different modes of transportation.

In addition to the good topo details, the site will allow you to find hiking trails in various parts of Switzerland. Sometimes a bit awkward to search, but when you get a hike, you get an altitude profile, accommodations, things to see.....

www.wanderland.ch/de/w andern-in.html?phrase=+Ftan+%28GR%29+ -+Scuol&sname=&sid=2122 15

<<" wasn't comfortable posting exact days we will be gone for security purposes...though I know some buses/trains only run on certain days.">>

I'm only asking to make sure that you are not trying to go into high altitudes before July 1.

The weather in June can be very changeable, and although it gets more summer like toward the end, the middle of June can still have trails closed due to snow. The automobile roads over the passes usually open in the first week of June. Late June is usually OK.

<<"Truly...you think if we arrive at 6:10 am we could be through all the lines in ZRH by 7ish? I had no idea & was giving it at least 2 hours...it would be WONDERFUL if they are as efficient at that as they are everything else!">>

You said 6AM. ;-)

Probably depends as much as anything else on where you are sitting on the plane. Baggage transfer to the carousels is fast enough that my bags often beat me to the carousel when I come in from the USA. I do have Delta's "Sky Priority" status which gets my bags out early, but they are still fast with baggage.

I certain that you can make it well within an hour after you are off the plane especially since you will have a Swiss travel pass. Buying tickets from the ticket machines is pretty fast, but there can be lines at the ticket counter.

www.wanderland.ch/de/w andern-in.html?phrase=+Ftan+%28GR%29+ -+Scuol&sname=&sid=2122 15

Avoid Travelex, their rates are highway robbery. ... there are ATM machines, such as from Credit Suisse, in the baggage claim area and just outside in the hall outside security where you can meet people, etc.

Also, in the extensive first lower level of Zürich main station, the main banks have substantail locations with multiple ATM machines, in case you miss your connection and have time there.

If you don't make the timing at ZFH, there is a substantial food hall on the ground floor of the railway station building just across the street from the exit hall from baggage claim and customs.

Some trains from the airport come in at lower levels of the station. Signage is excellent, but it may take a few minutes longer to get to main platform from tracks 32 or 41 than from 3 through 18 which are on the main platform..

Luggage carts are available if you have 2 CHF (or maybe 1 Euro) coin available to unplug the carts from the queue. You get your coin back when you put your cart back in another queue on the platform. They are free at tyhe airport. All go up and down escalators. Don't overload, or your bags might fall of when they tilt on the escalators.

The trains for Landquart ( direction Chur) all depart from the main platforms..variable track numbers such as 10, 11, 12....

<<"We have found (so far) if we stay awake doing things until about 7-8 pm then sleep about 11-12 hours, we are good to go with our internal clocks reset.">>

That works for me, but it helps me to stay up late enough if I can catch a quick nap after arrival.

Slowpoke

Hi Arno-

thanks. I got it through by renaming.

Slowpoke.

Hi Katie-

days 2 - 4

<<"Day 2 Train Guarda to Zernez; Post bus to Mustair thru Swiss Natl Park and back. 2nd night in Guarda.">>

An easy day. Probably a good idea. As far as I can tell, all hikes in the National Park acessible along that route involve climbing...I note that you do not plan to hike. We ate once in Santa Maria at a small very atmospheric place with a young chef on the main street. It does not seem to be there anymore, but there might be some other interesting places from a quick scan of restaurants and hotel there. They get a lot of traffic from Italy when that pass is open. It supports some good restaurants.

<Day 3 Train Guarda to Poschiavo then back to Pontresina...so we get to see the gorgeous scenery (twice) but can fit in that part of the Bernina Express route on a Regional train. 2 nights in Pontresina">>

Too bad you'll miss the amusing train loop at Brusio. Not worth a special trip, but still fun to see.

Day 4. Hike Muottas Muragl to Alp Languard. Perhaps wander through St. Moritz. Hotel/hostel has free transport pass while we are there...so this is our one flex day not using the 15 Day STP.">>

That is not a full day hike. it is one of the nicest easy walks in Switzerland, because the views shift as the trail turns. The view of the chain of lakes from Muottas Muragl is nice....we liked to eat lunch near the windows and look out.

Have not been there since the new building(s) were completed a few years ago.

The Engadine Museum in St. Moritz appealed to us:

www.engadin.stmoritz.c h/sommer/en/museen/eng adiner-museum/

www.museum-engiadinais.ch/ausstel lungen/?lang=de

Slowpoke

Hi Katie-

Days 9-14-

It is an excellent idea to plan for several days in the area. And, to do that part of your trip as near the end of your time in Switzerland as possible.Some of the best things to see and do in the Jungfrau region are dependent on having clear weather for visibility. The tail end of June can still be only the earliest part of Spring at those altitudes. If you are there in the 3rd week of June, do not be surprised if the trail from Männlichen to Kleine Scheidegg is not open every day, or has only opened with lots of snow banks along the trail. The portion passing around Tschuggen is particularly prone to problems with snow melt, snow sliding down and blocking the trail, etc.

Note that the weather comes in layers. When I was in Switzerland in mid-December, for weeks on end the lower elevations were covered with dense fog. At Männlichen, at about 2000 meters, the weather was clear. That is not an unusual Winter weather pattern, but the fog and cloud deck usually burn off by mid-day. You are unlikely to have that problem in June or July, but you do want to have plenty of time in the area., and make sure to confirm weather at higher elevations, even if Mürren is foggy.

Some would say to stay at either Wengen or Mürren but not both. With your plans, it makes sense to try both. Personally, I like to settle in and avoid time lost in transfers.

Laundry -

Coin op laundries are scarce in Switzerland. There is one in the back of the Hotel Silberhorn, Wengen. Small, slow machines. There is something in Lauterbrunnen, too.

On my last trip I found place in Luzern that does fast wash , dry, fold. That is not common. Jet Wasch on Bruchstrasse, about a ten minute walk from the main station.

jetwasch.ch/en/

If you need a break from weather in the Jungfrau region, a day trip to Montreux is not out of the question. Go via Zweisimmen; return the faster route through Bern.

www.myswissalps.com/go ldenpass

The Südrampe Rail Trail, mentioned before, is also a good remedy for cloudy days in the Jungfrau region. Although not as scenic, it has a high frequency of sunny days, even when the areas north of the Alps are socked in.

Some images attached show the fog in the lowlands. Others are from the Männlichen locale and the walk to Kleine Scheidegg. Look closely at the "North Face of the Eiger...." You can just see hikers on the trail in the distance. That gives you some idea of scale - of how overpowering the Eiger can be.

Because of the importance to tourism, there is extensive information on weather available from hotels, tourist offices, webcams, etc. for the region. The weather can change rapidly - even a few hours can make a big difference. You will not be surprised that the mountains have a major impact on weather patterns.

By the way, I feel quite strongly that you want to walk toward the Eiger....direction Männlichen to Kleine Scheidegg. Having the Eiger come closer and closer, and tower over you, adds a great deal to the experience.

Slowpoke

PS-

If your sister has any Swiss coins left from her trip, it is useful to have a few - especially a 2 CHF coin or two - in your pocket when you arrive. You won't need that for the free luggage carts at the airport, but it can be handy for the carts at Züri main station.

Oh...your pictures make me smile...I can't wait. ThanKS for any and all suggestions. I looked into the hotel you mentioned..Bergsonne. it is all booked on our night. Looked wonderful.

We have a carry on and backpack only. And you are a mind reader. .for Christmas my sister gave us paper and coins chf! Thank you.

Hi Katie-

I have asked Arno to send you my name. Herr Camps and Frau Camps-Stalder at the Bergsonne will definitely recognize it. Please mention it in correspondance or after you arrive. I am a "Stammgast." It won't get you a discount, but it might get you a better room. And, it will get me thanks, no discount, next time I am there. I or we already get the good corner table in the dining room. ;-) Unless a more frequent guest with a larger dinner party gets it first. ;-)

Because the walk from Weggis Schiffstation to the Talstation of the Luftseilbahn is uphill and a nuisance (no shuttle- the stops near there on the map are for a schoolbus in AM and PM) I'd recommend that you go up on the cograil from Vitznau. Click k on the station icons to see near term connections.

After you get off at Rigi Kaltbad station, give them a call, and they'll pick you up.

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/need-help-in-my-planning#cq6cUaDW9mqS6 v8AAFcRTQ

If you want to check out Weggis, you can do it on the way back down, or, go there first and take the bus or boat to Vitznau. Or, walk uphill 15 minutes from Weggis Schiffstation and bus stop to the Talstation.

Keep an eye on schedules. The last runs up are not real late at night.

I did not ask Arno to send my e-mail address to you; I did not think it was necessary. If you think it would be useful, I'll ask him to pass that on, too.

Slowpoke

Slowpoke...thanks. The hotel was full (I checked Kayak, Booking.com and TripAdvisor...) the night we were thinking of being there...but...dining there sounds perfect (so if you are there...we will all meet you at the table you mentioned! )

Off to buy my plane/rail/and insurance!

Katie

I noticed you mentioned the Swiss Travel Pass Flex in your first post. You'll find all pass details here: myswissalps.com/ swisstravelpassflex. You may want to contact the hotel directly, just in case. You might be lucky. Hotel booking sites are very convenient to compare offers and find alternative lodging, but some hotels do not offer all their rooms through them.

Good luck with the preparations!

Arno...I did use your calculator...it was wonderful...planned out what we wanted to do each day, found the cost, then compared to the calculations. 15 Day Flex worked best...especially with the days in Pontresina covered by a pass from the place we are staying. Wonderful. But...the email delivery didn't pop up as an option after choosing 15 day Flex and entering our address.

Hi Katie - Sorry, I misread your earlier comment. I thought you said that you had booked, not that the hotel was booked.

At the risk of suggesting the obvious - telephone or e-mail the hotel directly. At small place like this one, you'll usually get a better rate and will certainly get a bit of special treatment for a room.

I have never seen them full unless there is a special occasion- often a large family group or a company affair on a Friday night. I think that they have about 25 -30 rooms.

They are closed typically on Monday nights, sometimes Tuesday night. In recent years, they have tended not to open the hotel unless they are likely ( from past history patterns or current seasonal data) to have more than one or two guests. The breakfast buffet is generous, and Dorly has to get up early if they set it up. Since they are frequently up working until midnight or later, it can be a burden. But, by July, they should be fully open, and have a decent customer load, as far as I know.

I'll drop them a note to ask when they will open for the "Summer" season, since I have my own interests to plan, as well. At least, we will have more data.

Using those booking services costs them money, so you do them a favor by a direct telephone call, or, better, e-mail. Herr Camps' English is excellent, Dorly's is good, the porter sometimes does not speak English, so a telephone call is not always a good idea if they are not on site. I have no idea how well they are connected with the booking services, with regard to keeping opening dates correct.

Sorry that it did not work out; we'll see if there are more data. I simply assumed that you would avoid the booking services, because I do. My mistake.

Dinner in the evening without a room may not be a good option. I think that they start serving at 1800.

Last cable car down to Weggis is at 1925...slow food, remember? Last train down to Vitznau is at 2015 which might be tolerable but is rushing it, or at 2255 after a gap for hotels staff to go down after work.

At the moment, my plans are to be in the region in late May. They may not be open then. I don't think I'll be there when you will be.. However, my plans are not completely under my control, and may change.

Slowpoke

PS - note added in edit.

I e-mailed them and it bounced.

Most likely,they have taken a winter skiing break.

Less likely, after many years, they may have cut back on their hours/days or even shut down. I think it is the former...that same thing happened to me last year.

I'll check further in a week or two, then telephone.

That's correct as the Swiss Travel Pass Flex is not available to print at home yet, regardless of where you buy it. It's worth it to compare the retailers listed here. Some do not charge for shipping. I'd recommend to check out www.happyrail.com/en/p ass/europe/switzerland /swiss-travel-pass-flex, they're really cheap at the moment.