Rough itinerary for May 12-24 trip to Switzerland

P.S. The Wonderland site is great! I had not found that yet. Thank you!!

Hi Danielle -

Not a problem at all! It' s your trip.

And, you have learned how to use some important tools, if you have been following my suggestions on a map with the timetable handy.

In fact, that is why we all place so much emphasis on using the timetable and a map.....to learn such details before you have arrived. Of course, what you cannot judge without being there is the character of the trains and scenery.

I think I'd add the time, in part at least, to Luzern, especially if you want to do some hiking.

And, while you are in Wengen, you can consider the train over the Lötschberg, and onward to Zermatt, for a short trip with a break to walk around at Brig. Force the timetable computer to choose the scenic route by putting Kandersteg in the "via" or "connections" box.

See attached sample. Ntye the description "Lötschberger."

If you choose the option in the footnote "show intermediate stops" you can see that it is a local train.

If you are in a hurry on the way back, use the new "Basis Tunnel" via Visp which skips Brig and which takes off a half an hour or so, but removes the best scenery.

You can use the trip to get a better idea what the train travel is like. After you experience it, you may change your mind....at that time of year, even in the alpine areas, you'll quite likely be able to find a room on short notice. And, you can use your experience to plan the trip in September.

By the way, that is when I prefer to go. Although there are no promises, that is when the weather tends to be best, and the European tourists are back at work with the kids in school. These pictures were taken in late September, in 2009, on a day when we had perfect weather..

Slowpoke

<<"What will really help when you have time (and no rush at all at this point) is your advice on which will be the most direct routes from location to location but that will offer the best scenery.">>

Those two concepts are mutually inconsistent, unless there is only one route, such as the train between Visp and Zermatt. The rail network has a high degree of redundancy.

The timetable always chooses the fastest route unless you tel it to go "via" some specific intermedaite stop.

Zürich to Luzern really has only one route upon arrival. You will be jet lagged and want to get to your hotel quickly. The scenery is not bad.

If you wanted to make a day of it, you could go via Bern. The map will show you that trip. There is a fast option and a scenic option for the stretch between Bern and Luzern. The scenic option ( via Langnau) goes through the Emmental with its characteristic architecture and villages. The faster route goes through or near Olten and Zofingen, on high speed tracks.

For your other connections, the timetable will give you the fastest routes as the default option.

Many people seek out the slower trains on the various sections of the Golden Pass routes for scenery between Luzern, Interlaken/Wengen and Montreux.

www.myswissalps.com/go ldenpass

Read it in conjunction with a map and the timetable.

Slowpoke

Thank you!! I think the Swiss Half Fare Card would probably be cheaper, but I don't want to spend the time to price it out. I'm going with the Pass. I don't want to think about the cost and I like the idea of showing the card and hopping on.

I had just assumed you lived in Switzerland. But now I'm guessing you are in the U.S.?

Hope you have a glorious weekend!

Oh my!! Those photos! My children and I are all SO excited! And thank you for sending the ideas re routes and the copy of the timetable to give me an idea. I will get online and play with that some.

Hope you are smiling big today!! You are great!!!

<<"Oh my!! Those photos! My children and I are all SO excited! Andthank you for sending the ideas re routes and the copy of the timetableto give me an idea. I will get online and play with that some. Hope you are smiling big today!! You are great!!! ">>

Thanks.

I'll smile even more when you start to use the timetable....it will save me some work ;-)

And, for an 11 day trip, you will smile too. Works best with a map,

map.search.ch/?x=-11112m&y=24080m&z=2

but the individual routes, once selected on the time table offer a map in the footnotes.

Those pictures are from September.

In May, you most likely not be able to walk that trail.

But, you could probably see this from Wengen (assuming no clouds) , because most of the snow will be gone from the valley floor.

<<"But now I'm guessing you are in the U.S.?">>

Connecticut

Slowpoke

Okay, will do. Thank you for all of the helpful links!!

Hi Danielle -

After you have thought about it some more, please repost a simple listlng of your proposed itinerary.

Then we can perhaps point out a few things that we like at the locations, for you to consider in particular. the links that I provided are overflowing with information.

And, I'll have to remember your preference for short train rides. That is very much a matter of individual preferences....I was advising a friend once, and looked at his plan. I said "Don't you want to stop and look around for a while in some of those places? All you will be doing is riding the trains and boats."

His answer - "That is exactly what we want to do."

Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke, Sorry, that's all I know :)

I have booked chalets in all three locations-- that is such a relief to have that done! Although I would have liked to see Appenzell and Lugano, I feel very good about being able to enjoy the areas we are visiting this time without having to pack up and move too often.

Final Itinerary:

• Lucerne May 12, 13, 14, 15
• Montreux, May 16, 17, 18
• Wenger May 19, 20, 21, 22
• Zurich May 23
• Fly home : May 24

You probably won't want to read all of the info below! But these are items I had put in my notes so far that I thought we would enjoy. I am assuming we won't have time to do all this. I'm guessing some things I've listed may not be available / open in May. I haven't listed any museums yet but with the Swiss Travel Pass including them, I'm sure we will hit some. All suggestions / recommendations are sincerely appreciated!!!

Lucerne – 1 hour from Zurich 4 nights May 12, 13,14, 15 can rent bikes from train station – nice &level in Lucerne

• Paddleboat Steamer on the Vierwald-stattersee(Lake Luzern) to the Rutli Meadow and Wilhelm Tell chapel
• Cable Car or cog railway to Mt. Pilatus (dramatic – has restaurant teetering on its razor sharp edge)–take the “golden round trip” – which includes a bus from Luzern, a cable car trip to the top, a cogwheel train back down the other side, and a boat ride back to Luzern.
• Head south to Engelberg where you can take the gondola up to the top of Mt. Titlis—the loftiest view in central Switz. Assume Gondola’s not working yet this time of year?
• See The Chapel Bridge(oldest wooden bridge in Europe), the Lion Monument, the Roseengart Picassos
• Lakeside Promenade
• Walking tour – Lucerntourist office
• See frescoes inJesuitenkirche (Jesuit Church) built in1666
• Kultur- und Kongresszentrum concert hall – music -architecture Old Town -- medieval Interlaken-Lucerne and Lucerne to Montreux you can take one of Switzerland's iconic scenic trains the Golden Pass.(over the scenic Brunig Pass rail line) (this goes from BErner Oberland to Lucerne – can it also be taken from Lucerne to Lausanne?

May 16th –leave for Montreux 3 nights May 16, 17, 18, Tourist office –can give specialized map that identifies the route and cellars open for tastings. – can walk or bike along the wine trail –download –montreuxriviera.com cycle path that hugs the side of the lake to Chilon and beyond. best way to see this area --You can take the bikes on the ferries, say to Morges, then cycle on the lake path to Lausanne.** lakeside flower trail is a must from montreux to chateau de chillon Lausanne's must-do and seeis the Olympic-Museum and the cathedral Montreux's is the Chateau de Chillon and the scenic train up to "Rochers-de-Naye"Montreux or Vevey offer several sweet easy day trips - again boat rides are nice on the lake and places like Gruyeres and the Broc Nestle Chocolate Factory In Lausanne, be sure totake the classic boat tour of Lake Geneva - to route. Fluelen and back from there by train - part of the William Tell scenic train (and boat) Cathedral de Notre Dame –Switzerland’s largest church Arrange walking tour led by historian in Lausanne Lake Geneva – Easy to moderate hike – The Lavaux Vineyard Terraces 6.75 miles Boat Ride Old Town Wineries – see page for winery tour Gruyeres –see castle Chocolate Excursion train to the Cailler factory in Broc – to ensure a tour with English commentary, reserve in advance. Think I read somewhere does this not run in May??

Basel – Old Town 5-19 Leave for Berner Oberland – go through Bern--Bern -- on the way to B Oberland (go to Bear Park and Grandson Castle) Kandersteg, -- mountaincoaster! TAKE THE GOLDEN PASS?? FROM LAUSANNE TO BERNER OBERLAND

sleep in WEngen– 4 nights May 19, 20, 21, 22 boat trips on Lakes Thun and Brienz, which bookend Interlaken, are fantastic 30 minute train ride from Interlaken take the Jungfrau Railway, which runs up inside the mountain — to viewing areas on the Eiger’s face and beyond, with the cogwheel train culminating at Jungfraujoch, Europe’s highest-altitude railway stop. Grindelwald Sports--paragliding . -- Europe’s longest tobaggon run Bungee jump?? boat rides on the two lovely Alpine lakes bookending Interlaken - each lake has several neat places to get off and look around and back on another boat. I.Hike Trummelbaach Falls – 10 glacier waterfalls The bicycle ride from Murren to Gimmelwald to the valley is awesome – book bikes in advance? Jungfrau – some parts are closed in May -- The cograil to Jungfrau via Kleine Scheidegg will be running....it runs all year around. Hike Northface Trail -- Not open? Lauterbrunnen Valley – 72 waterfalls -- see Staubbach Falls (941feet)

Eiger Trail --The Eiger North Wall is close enough to touch from the Eiger Trail and the various world-famous climbing routes to the notorious Eiger summit are easy to spot. -guessing way too difficult for us? and not open either? Heimwehfluh -- old fashioned funicular railway -- -- 985 foot bobsled run down you will be in Lauterbrunnen in between seasons. The high elevation walks won't be available (usually not until June 15) but the walks along the valley floor (Lauterbrunnen to Stechelberg) and up above it (Grütschalp to Mürren) are lovely

P.S. It consolidated all my bullet point lines into paragraphs, so may be harder to read. Sorry!!

Hi Danielle-

After a quick glance, they look OK to read...

I'll have to take a day or so to get back, but, since you have booked your stays, time is less critical.

Later,

Slowpoke

Hi Danielle -

I skimmed through your lists looking for things tha caused me to react...positively or negatively.

Here is one.

<<"Lucerne – 1 hour from Zurich 4 nights May 12, 13,14, 15 can rent bikes from train station – nice &level in Lucerne">>

"Nice and level" applies to the city itself and some of the region due west. Your comment may give the wrong impression.

The city itself is only level along the lake shore, and, for example, along the arm of the lake toward Küssnacht to the east. A special appeal of Luzern is easy access to the mountains that surround the city.

Perhaps you should study a map with topographic details...which can be extremely precise if you choose to use it.

Either Mapsearch.CH for general use, or nSwissTopo for more information than you want, but which gives the answers on topography.

map.search.ch/?x=4084m&y=21192m&z=64

and,

map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=swisstopo&lang=e n&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo .pixelkarte-farbe&X=212060.00&Y=66 8260.00&zoom=5

I did mention that hiking around Lake Luzern is excellent. It is far from level. Those maps may help.

More on that later, but segments of the "Swiss Path" around lake Luzern ....der Weg der Schweiz.... can be enjoyed with only some climbs.

www.weg-der-schweiz.ch/en/

Slowpoke

Thanks so much for the feedback and info. I can tell The Swiss Path will be helpful! I had not come across that site yet. Thank you!!

Hi Danielle-

Still working on Luzern.

I'm going to start a new thread on some hiking around the particularly scenic southern end of the lake (in German, that part is der Urnersee). it will use part of the Swiss path, as well as a variation that we like.

Meanwhile, before I do that

<<"Lucerne – 1 hour from Zurich 4 nights May 12, 13,14, 15

1.-Paddleboat Steamer on the Vierwaldstättersee (Lake Luzern) to the Rütli Meadow and Wilhelm Tell chapel (Tellskapelle)">>

The other post to be done later relates to this topic, because the walk starts at Rütli meadow, accessed by lake boat..

Also, you can take a boat to Vitznau and cograil to Rigi-Kulm. From Rigi Kulm, the fastest way back to Luzern is via Arth-Goldau. (Cog-rail down the other side of the mountain.) You could consider coming up that route via Arth-Goldau as an alternate way to make the round trip.

The best way back down for exercise and views on a clear day is to walk from Rigi-Kulm to Rigi Kaltbad, via the 1 to 2 hour trail that swings out near Rigi Staffel-Höhe, over the meadows to Känzeli and back to Rigi Kaltbad, followed by the cable car down to Weggis, and 15 minute walk down to the boat pier, where you can catch a boat back to Luzern, or a bus that runs along the shore line either south to Brunnen (train) or north to Küssnacht am Rigi (train.)

Use a map and the time table to figure that out, and/or check the boat schedules which change in late May, so make sure you get the right dates.

www.lakelucerne.ch/fil eadmin/lakelucerne/con tent/Dokumente_Downloa ds_PDF/01_Fahrplan-Preise/01_Fahrplan/Sai sonaler_Fahrplan/2016/ Fahrplan_Fruehling_201 6.pdf

(in German but you can figure it out from a map.)

map.search.ch/?x=6680m&y=14928m&z=4

2.-<<" Cable Car or cog railway to Mt. Pilatus (dramatic – has restaurant teetering on its razor sharp edge)–take the “golden round trip” – which includes a bus from Luzern, a cable car trip to the top, a cogwheel train back down the other side, and a boat ride back to Luzern.">>

Or, you can do it in the other direction. Or, all from the lake side. The ride up and the ride down via cograil are both unique. A couple of very old pictures are attached.

3.- <<"Head south to Engelberg where you can take the gondola up to the top of Mt. Titlis—the loftiest view in central Switz. Assume Gondola’s not working yet this time of year?">>

Why assume anything? Check the timetable.

"<<4.-See The Chapel Bridge(oldest wooden bridge in Europe), the Lion Monument,

The Roseengart Picassos

Lakeside Promenade

Walking tour – Lucerntourist office

See frescoes inJesuitenkirche (Jesuit Church) built in1666

Kultur- und Kongresszentrum concert hall – music -architecture Old Town --">>

The Kapellbrücke was rebuilt after a fire 10 years or do ago. Perfect replica.

All good. Definitely add the Bourbaki Panorama, not far from the Lion.

www.bourbakipanorama.c h/en/

The pictures on the website here are not representative. The trailer helps. There is no way to reproduce with images the feeling that seeing it in person produces.

I'd consider getting a map at the tourist office by track #1 in Luzern main station and asking them to point out the points of interest. I have never taken a guided tour, so I cannot comment on the benefits or deficiencies. The old town, mostly but not completely across the river, is nice to walk around in, on your own. There will be plenty of tourists, but not nearly so excessively as in August.

If you have an engineer in the group, the bridge/dam where they regulate the water level in the lake is easy to get to.

The Rosengart Collection is 3 minutes from the main station. The Klees are even more impressive than the Picassos. There is a tiny Picasso museum across the river in the old town, which we found particularly appealing.

If you walk the lake shore to or from the Transport Museum ( good for rail buffs) you have nice views of the Bürgenstock Peninsula. Look at a map. There is alke boat stop at the Transport Museum ( Verkehrshaus.)

In the attached image, the red arrow points to Hammetschwand, seen from the lake shore promenade. Not on the normal tourist routes, but a nice place for lunch with stunning views and a bit of a walk to and from. Public transport up to near there there is a bit confusing due to lots of construction, but I checked and it is reasonable and possible to go up there. Good road/trails to walk on near Hammetschwand, and a rather interesting out door elevator on the cliff face. Should be really nice if you have a sunny day in May.

I'll make a separate post about Hammetschwand with details after I do the Urnersee/Swiss Path post later.

Slowpoke

Hi Danielle -

These two images go with the description of the walk on the Rigi, mentioned in the previous post.

Here is what I said there.

<<"Also, you can take a boat to Vitznau and cograil to Rigi-Kulm. From Rigi Kulm, the fastest way back to Luzern is via Arth-Goldau. (Cog-rail down the other side of the mountain.) You could consider coming up that route via Arth-Goldau as an alternate way to make the round trip.

The best way back down for exercise and views on a clear day is to walk from Rigi-Kulm to Rigi Kaltbad, via the 1 to 2 hour trail that swings out near Rigi Staffel-Höhe, over the meadows to Känzeli and back to Rigi Kaltbad, followed by the cable car down to Weggis, and 15 minute walk down to the boat pier, where you can catch a boat back to Luzern, or a bus that runs along the shore line either south to Brunnen (train) or north to Küssnacht am Rigi (train.)">>

They are screen captures from the SwissTop web site.

Slowpoke

Thank you for all of the clarification and information in your last two posts!!

Hi Danielle-

Working on your next set of days after Luzern-

<<"May 16th –leave for Montreux 3 nights May 16, 17, 18, Tourist office –can give specialized map that identifies the route and cellars open for tastings. – can walk or bike along the wine trail –download –montreuxriviera.com cycle path that hugs the side of the lake to Chilon and beyond. best way to see this area --You can take the bikes on the ferries, say to Morges, then cycle on the lake path to Lausanne.** lakeside flower trail is a must from montreux to chateau de chillon

Lausanne's must-do and see is the Olympic-Museum and the cathedral

Montreux's is the Chateau de Chillon and the scenic train up to "Rochers-de-Naye"

Montreux or Vevey offer several sweet easy day trips - again boat rides are nice on the lake and places like Gruyeres and the Broc Nestle Chocolate Factory In Lausanne, be sure to take the classic boat tour of Lake Geneva - to route. ">>

That all sounds good. Lake Boat tours are time consuming.

Look at the time table and a map.The French village of Yvoire is full of flowers and very nice to walk around. Access via a boat.

<<", Fluelen and back from there by train - part of the William Tell scenic train (and boat)">>

You seem to have misplaced this line. The Wilhem Tell Express runs between Luzern/Füuelen/Lugano or Locarno, including a boat ride the full lengtgh of Lake Luzern and the scenic rail route over the Gotthard Pass. It probably is impsosible to fit that in one day without an extremely late return if you really mean it. And, you don't want long days on the train(s) .

If you meant to include that as part of your days in Luzern, then , instead, I'd take the train to Füelen from Luzern, ride the boat back to Brunnen, and catch a train back to Luzern. That covers the territory to be mentioned in the coming post ( real soon now) about the Swiss Path. Variopus other boat stops also connect with land-based publict ransport, mostly busses, which can get back to Luzern via various routes, including portions on trains.

<<"mentioned Cathedral de Notre Dame –Switzerland’s largest church Arrange walking tour led by historian in Lausanne

Lake Geneva – Easy to moderate hike – The Lavaux Vineyard Terraces 6.75 miles

Boat Ride

Old Town Wineries – see page for winery tour Gruyeres –see castle Chocolate Excursion train to the Cailler factory in Broc – to ensure a tour with English commentary, reserve in advance. Think I read somewhere does this not run in May??">>

Don't know. My guess is that the Cailler factory tours ( in Broc, if i recall correctly) would run all year.

Here is the link for the train - it seems to run from May to October, only on certain days of the week..

Cost is only partly covered by the Swiss Travel Pass.

www.goldenpass.ch/en/g oldenpass/offer/view?id=15

www.goldenpass.ch/asse ts/media/offer/Offre_T rain_du_chocolat/Train _du_Chocolat_2015.pdf

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/reservations -for-chocolate-train-and-golden-pass-1

You can check the timetable for your desired date, whether the Chocolate Train is running or not.. The end station for the factory is Broc-Fabrique. It is about a 2 hour train ride one way from Montreux. Does that exceed your time limits?

<<"Basel – Old Town ">>

How did Basel get in the list? Certainly accessible from Montreux or Luzern. Do you plan to visit there?

<<"5-19 Leave for Berner Oberland – go through Bern--Bern -- on the way to B Oberland (go to Bear Park and Grandson Castle) Kandersteg, -- mountaincoaster! TAKE THE GOLDEN PASS?? FROM LAUSANNE TO BERNER OBERLAND">>

On the Way from Bern to the Berner Oberland you do not pass through Kandersteg.

From Montreux to the BO it is possible to go via Martigny/ Brig/ Kandersteg/ Spiez/ Interlaken/ Wengen.

Not a bad ride.Almost 4 hours, including the fast and boring new "basis tunnel" from Brig/Visp to Spiez. Add something less than an hour to include the older, very scenic upper route via Kandersteg ( beetween Brig and Spiez.)

Many people in deed prefer the "Golden Pass Route- Montreux/ Zweisimmen/Spiez/ Interlaken/ Wengen.

Four hours to 4 hours 45 minutes. Certain trains have special cars, requiring reservations.

Fastest route is Montreux/Bern/ Spiez/ Interlaken/Wengen....3 1/2 hours.

If you have taken the Chocolate train already or traveled that scenic stretch above Montreux already, the route through Bern could be considered for relatively greater speed.

www.myswissalps.com/go ldenpass

Force through Zweisimmen in the timetable. The first part overlaps the Chocolate train route.

Grandson is on Lac Neuchatel. Certainly accessible from Montreux, 1 hour to 1 hour 13 minutes. Not in Bern or on a direct route to Bern or the BO.. Look at the timetable, select any particular journey for the route, and open the map from the footnotes.

Castle looks nice....but I am uncertain whether it would deserve a detour. Depends if you like castles, i guess.

www.chateau-grandson.ch/en/home.ht ml

Could be part of a day trip from Montreux, including Bern......about 1 hr 20 minutes, +/-, Grandson to Bern, then another hour and one half from Bern to Montreux.

Breaks up the train rides into smaller sections....

Slowpoke

Slowpoke

You are quite welcome.

Please see my post in this section of the Forum on the Swiss Path. it shows a region and some details for an excellent hiking day trip from Luzern, which can be broken down to small and easy sections.

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/the-swiss-path-and-southern-lake-lucerne

I have found it useful to be able to refer to that information several times, so I decided to put together a post that I can link to in the future.

Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke,

I know your post was to help Danielle but you have coincidentally given me another idea for our upcoming trip! Your mention of Yvoire sent me researching as I had not heard of it! It looks like a really pretty place to visit so I have found the route and train times and some facts about its attractions and added it to my list of "might do's" as we are always keen to visit new locations each year.

Thank you for the idea.

Maggie

<<"Your mention of Yvoire sent me researching as I had not heard of it! It

looks like a really pretty place to visit so I have found the route and

train times and some facts about its attractions and added it to my

list of "might do's" as we are always keen to visit new locations each

year.">>

Hi Magggie -

Hope it works for you.

We went by boat from Nyon.

Fred