Swiss itinerary for December 2015

Hi! I am from Singapore and will be travelling to Switzerland from 10 – 13 Dec; 20 – 27 Dec 2015 (I am travelling out of Swiss in between 13 – 20 Dec).This website is really useful in helping me plan my itinerary! I’ve gotten most of my itinerary out but I do have some questions. Please advise!

I’d love to prioritise scenery, castles, flea markets, specialty stores (e.g. chocolate factory)! I have purchased a Swiss Half Fare Pass, and will be travelling with my mother, so I prefer to minimise hiking trips and will not do skiing. If there are easy walks for seniors (above 60 years old), I would give it a try.

10 Dec Zurich [Stay at Zurich] – planning a day trip here, are there any special Christmas events?

11 Dec [Stay at Zurich] Day trip to St Gallen/Appenzell - any idea if there is a day trip ticket I can purchase since I am thinking of doing both towns? Should I focus on one? I love libraries so I am definitely going for Stiftsbibliothek.

12 Dec [Stay at Zurich] Day trip to either Rheinfall or Basel – I’m not sure if Rheinfall is worth visiting during winter (frozen waterfall?) so I planned for Basel for the christmas markets.

13 Dec Zurich to France

20 Dec [Stay at Vevey] France to Vevey (whole day travel)

21 Dec [Stay at Vevey] Tour Vevey & Day trip to Montreux

22 Dec [Stay at Grindelwald] Grindelwald & Mannlichen – can I do Grindelwald – Mannlichen – Wengen – Grindelwald? How long would it take via cable car & train?

23 Dec [Stay at Grindelwald] Jungfraujoch Day trip – I am planning to do Grindelwald – Kleine Scheidegg – Junfraujoch. Is there any way I can do the return trip to Grindelwald if I don’t do the exact return trip? Can I for example, come back via Wengen/Gimmelwald? How will that fare for the cable car & train tickets?

24 Dec [Stay at Grindelwald] Murren & Schilthorn day trip – I couldn’t find any trains from Grindelwald to Murren, are the trains closed on Christmas eve? Also, when I used the SBB app, there were multiple Murren station options, which one should I alight at to make the trip to Schilthorn?

25 Dec [Stay at Lucerne] Explore Lucerne – are trains running since it’s Christmas (national holiday)? Are there any Christmas markets at Lucerne? Are there any Catholic churches since we’re catholics and would like to attend Christmas mass :)

26 Dec [Stay at Lucerne] I’ve yet to plan the last day – should I do a day trip to Lake Lucerne or Mount Titlis/Mount Pilatus? Are both mountains any different from Jungfarujoch? Any other places I should consider?

Also, some hotels offer half-boards. Is it a good opportunity to try them for local Swiss food? Many thanks in advance!

Jane

Hi Jane,

Welcome to MySwissAlps! Can you edit your message and add a few line breaks to make it easier to read? Thanks!

Hi Arno,

Thanks for the authorisation. I realised the format went haywire after I posted the message (I had it typed out neatly). I couldn't edit until I was given authorised access by the moderators. Thanks!

Hi Jane-

Generally, it looks like a very good itinerary. It seems that you have done your homework on transportation. The way you have formatted the latter portion of your travel plans is excellent. Makes it much simpler to follow and think about. Thanks.

Quite a few of your questions about the Jungfrau Region can be answered by looking at a map and using the timetable -

map.classic.search.ch/

www.myswissalps.com/ti metable

I ( and others) will surely add comments.

Late at night here ,so tomorrow is better for me.

I'll follow up.

Slowpoke

Hello Slowpoke!

Thank you for the compliments! :) I planned it with a lot of useful information from this website and forum, so kudos to the moderators too! Looking forward to hearing your (and others') comments. Have a good rest!

Jane

Jane-

I am working my way through your questions and will post detailed answers later today, and maybe the next day.

However, regarding December 24th, there is public transport all day long until near midnight from Grindelwald to Mürren.

You should use the Swiss timetable, if you are not. Check the exact day.

www.myswissalps.com/ti metable

or

www.sbb.ch/en/home.htm l

You will note two particular names at Mürren -

Mürren BLM - the station for the short train ride from Grütschalp to Mürren, which os one route from Lauterbrunnen (L- Lauterbrunnen; M- Mürren, B= ?)

Mürren - Schilthornbahn - the cable car station for the series of cable cars that come up from Stechelberg on the valley floor (and from Gimmelwald) and which continue up to Schiilthorn.

At Grindelwald, the main station will be where trains from the directionof Interlaken come into town. Further , at Grindelwald Grund, you can get the cograil train that goes up to Kleine Scheidegg and onwards.

A map may help:

map.classic.search.ch/

The "classic" version is formatted for a large screen. I like that . The "New" version seems to be designed for smartphones, and has less information on the opening page. I use it at my desktop computer, so that is not for me. But, they have the same maps.

Slowpoke

Hi Jane- Here are some thoughts on subjects where I can comment.

I typed them in MS Word, and copied in here. The formatting was lost....perhaps you had the same problem. The links may have to be cut and pasted into your browser window. Some may not have reformatted correctly. Sorry if that is the case. I'm doing a bit of reformatting.

10 Dec Zurich [Stay at Zurich] – planning a day trip here, are there any special Christmasevents?As you note below, Basel has whatmay be the largest Christmas Market in Switzerland. However, there is a nice one in the main station at Zürich, starting early in December. It is nice to have it concentrated in one location. But, it is still cold….the station is not heated. Quite a change from the climate in Singapore. I enjoy walking around the old town of Zürich on both sides of the river. The frequent and convenient trams help to get around. You can get information on day tickets,transit maps, etc., from the office of the Zürich Transit System, (ZVV, Zürich VerkehrsVerein) recently relocated to a new section of the “Shopville” under the station.

On the west bank, a small hill holds the Lindenhof, which was fortified by the Romans. It has nice views over the river to the universities. Other parts of the old town are nearby. Between there and St. Peter’s church are lots of old streets to wander. The well-known Bahnhofstrasse shopping street is a few streets to the east of there. It is nicely decorated for Christmas.

Across the river is the Niederdorf (“lower village”) part of the old town.

www.myswissalps.com/zu rich

I like Zürich best of all the Swiss cities, but it is not so much for what a tourist sees in one day. It rewards staying there and getting to knowall the cultural and culinary resources.

11 Dec [Stay at Zurich] Day trip toSt Gallen/Appenzell - any idea if there is a day tripticket I can purchase since I am thinking of doing both towns? Should I focuson one? I love libraries so I am definitely going for Stiftsbibliothek.

I don’t know about the daycard. This might help:

The information is surely on the SBB website somewhere, but you might have to dig.

Arno and Annika (The forum moderators) are the experts on that sort of thing.

(I hold a Swiss residents 3 year Half Fare Card – a so called Halb Abo or Halbtax card) - and it offers day tickets. This is the card for residents, is being altered to a new type of card, and is different from yours - www.myswissalps.com/ swisshalffarecard When I have gotten day tickets, it has required a lot of travel to justify the cost. I am not sure that Zürich- St. Gallen-Appenzell –Zürich would justify one, but that is just a guess.)

St. Gallen – The Stiftsbiblithek (and cathedral) is worth a journey. It is about a 5-10minute walk from the station. The old town of St. Gallen surrounds it and is anice place to walk around.If possible, have a meal at the very old and very Swiss Weinstube zum Bäumli near the cathedral and library.

www.wei nstube-baeumli.ch

and, www.myswitzerland.com/ en-us/st-gallen.html

Appenzell -

I have not explored Appenzell thoroughly. We went in the summer, as aside trip from a visit to Ebenalp. I think that the main square and small old own are the main attractions, and, can be seen in a couple of hours or less. However, others may have more to say.

http://www.myswi tzerland.com/en-us/appenzell

12 Dec [Stay at Zurich] Day trip to either Rheinfall or Basel – I’m notsure if Rheinfall is worth visiting during winter (frozen waterfall?) so Iplanned for Basel for the christmas markets.

I have no opinion on the Rheinfall.

Basel has a lot to see in addition to the Christmas markets. Unless it is frozen, the Tingueley water sculpture is definitely worth a look. There are some excellent art museums. If that interests you, the Rietberg , near the German border, is stunning. A bit of a tram ride (with connections that confused me the first time) and a short walk. Ask at tourist info in the mainstation. Every time I have been there,the same bored lady was the staff at the Tourist Info desk, but she was thorough and provided good information on how to get around. If you go for the markets, just walk.

Trains (plus) schedules.

Some of your questions on travel are best answered by using the timetable, which covers all modes of public transportation

www.myswissalps.com/ti metable

or

http://www.sbb.c h/en/home.html

Other timetables may not include all of the means of transport, such as cable cars. Use the genuine Swiss article ;-)

If you want to see if a particular “ski” lift is running on a particular day, it can provide the answer. That is useful,because in your first days in Switzerland, some of the high alpine services may not have re-started after their mid-season break. By the time you come back, they should be running. They are needed for Mürren. However, it is wise to check because some services close for maintenance at various times in the winter.

I would use it to check on your question about travel from Grindelwald on the 22nd, and will do so later.That’s a start.

More later.

Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke,

Yes, I typed out my points on Word and the format was not transferred when I copied it into the forum.

10 Dec Zurich. Thanks for the recommendations! I’ll check out the suggested markets and old streets in Zurich. I love exploring in old towns and little shops – I can never know what I’ll find and that is part of the excitement!

11 Dec Day trip to St Gallen/Appenzell. I managed to find a generic 1-day ticket pass, but it costs CHF 73 evenwith Half Fare Pass! Hence I will forego Appenzell for St. Gallen. I heard the Chocolaterie comes highly recommended and we could possibly have afternoon teaat the café. I’ll also look up Rietberg since it comes highly recommended from you.

22 Dec [Stay at Grindelwald] Grindelwald & Mannlichen. Thank you for the map – it is useful to gauge the distance. I am now thinking of doing a Grindelwald – Mannlichen – Wengen – Grindelwald trip. Just a note, I can’t find the duration of the cable car rides – would you be able to advice? I would prefer to head back to the hotel by nightfall, and I believe it’s around 4.30pm in winter. Unless there are night sights I shouldn't miss?

24 Dec [Stay at Grindelwald] Murren & Schilthorn day trip. Now that I know it is possible to travel back to Grindelwald via Lauterbrennan or Gimmelwald, are there any recommendations which place has more to see?

About 24 and 25 Dec – thanks for confirming that the trains are running! The schedule (even using the link you gave me) only showed schedules up till 2 Dec 15, hence I wanted to double check if they do run on the eve and Christmas day.

I'll wait for the remaining comments for the last leg of the trip. Thank you for the efforts!

Jane

Hi Jane-

I thought I provided the cable car times.

I must have lost the post somehow....that happens to me a lot when I am switching tabs.

I'll give a quick approximate summary from memory now, and details later after I look it all up once again. But, ALL of that information is in the time table. Every bit.

Start- Walk down to Grindelwald Grund or ride down from Grindelwald. Short trip. Walk 10 minutes from Grindelwald Grund to the valley station of the lift up to Männlichen - small cabin lift , I think. Runs continuously all day - just a few minutes to the top.

Short walk to Männlichen station of the LWM . Then a gondola car about twice or three times per hour, about 6 minutes ride down to Wengen. Last trip at about 1630. 5 minutes walk to Wengen train station.

Trains down to Lauterbrunnen every half hour, take roughly 15 minutes. Last trip late at night. At LB, two choices - cograil to Grindelwald via Kleine Scheidegg about 1 hour 35 minutes, last trip in late afternoon. or down the Valley to Zweilütschinen, change for Grindelwald. 36 minutes...approx two per hour, run fairly late at night.

Hope that helps.

More later.

Slowpoke

PS- the Rietberg is in Basel.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Rietberg_Museum

Hi Jane-

Here are some screen shots from the timetable:

www.myswissalps.com/ti metable

I have expanded one journey on these shots to give an example of the more detailed information. Click on the "+"

Note that one can find "Last Connection" which often is by a circuitous route. The scenic and ski lift services tend to stop in late afternoon....roughly at sunset. The parts of the journey which are public "mass" transit to villages run late into the night (and start early in the AM.) An example is the section between Wengen and Lauterbrunnen.

At the start, you can ride from Grindelwald to Grindelwald Grund, every 30 minutes. Going up is by a continuous service....note the once per minute departures. I recall a lift with small cabins...4 people, maybe. Two stages, automatic connection/car transfer, I recall.

Note the pictorial icons on the timetable pages. They show the type of cable car/ski lift. etc.

The distance from Grindelwald to Grindelwald Grund is only 600 meters, down hill, so you can also walk it. Look at the map:

map.classic.search.ch/

The map will clarify the various connecting walks, if needed. They are obvious and have signs.

Once you have selected a single journey from the time table, you can click on "Map" and get a map of the route, also.

On the last stretch from Lauterbrunnen to Grindelwald, the computer selects the fastest route as the default. If you enter "Kleine Scheidegg" in the "via" or "connections" box, you get the slow scenic cog rail route over the top.

By using the timetable for 25.12.2015, you can learn about Christmas day service. I did not do that.

Hope this helps. If you are not getting these screens, I'm guessing that you may be using a smart phone app. I have never done that, so I don't know what you get. Using a desktop or laptop computer gives the detailed information I have shown in these screen captures.

Perhaps the app is useful while you are on the trips? I tend to pick up the small printed booklets available in the stations, which give the train services at that station or region. Lighter and simpler for scanning all options.

Please let me know if you can make the timetable work for you.

Slowpoke

<<"25 Dec [Stay at Lucerne] Explore Lucerne – aretrains running since it’s Christmas (national holiday)? Are there anyChristmas markets at Lucerne? Are there any Catholic churches sincewe’re catholics and would like to attend Christmas mass :)

The Christmas market at Luzern (German spelling) is small, in the main station.

Traditionally, the various cantons have majority populations of either Roman Catholic or Protestant (Evangelical Reform) denominations. Kanton Luzern is a Catholic canton. I have not tried a Google search, but I am sure that you will find a place for worship.

The Jesuit Church (die Jesuitenkirche) in Luzern by the river is an outstanding and beautiful landmark. See attached picture taken at dawn from our hotel room at the Hotel Schiff (now closed.)

Trains run on a regular schedule or close to it on Christmas day. One per hour from Grindelwald to Luzern at xx19. two hours and 36 minutes via the Brunig Pass and Meiringen. Scenic.

<<"26 Dec [Stay at Lucerne] I’ve yet to plan the last day – should I do a day trip to Lake Lucerneor Mount Titlis/Mount Pilatus? Are both mountains any different fromJungfarujoch? Any other places I should consider?">>

I've never been to Titlis. No comment.

www.myswissalps.com/ti tlis

it is a bit of a train ride from Luzern.

Pilatus is close by.

www.myswissalps.com/pi latus

Pilatus has a couple of restaurants/hotels and a small amount of 'walk around" space. great views of the lake, mountains, etc. Very different from Jungfraujoch, but, still, basically a high mountain peak.

<<"Also, some hotels offer half-boards. Is it a good opportunity to try them for local Swiss food? Many thanks in advance!">>

If they have a restaurant, they offer Swiss food. Unless, of course, they are Indian, Chinese, Thai, Japanes/sushi, Italian, vegetarian ....

Swiss cuisine has elements of French, German and Italian. There is often an emphasis on cheese dishes...fondue and raclette, for example. (those are also common in France in the regions near Switzerland.)

Half board will give a limited selection of the foods, compared to more expensive a la carte choices. It usually offers a bargain price for the meal. with the trade off being limited choice.

Essentially all restaurants in Switzerland serve one or more "Menus" called "die Tageskarte" ( "die Karte:" is also the word that corresponds to English "menu.") or the "Carte du Jour" (or something like that in French.) So, if you want a paper menu, ask for the card, not the menu. Speisekarte is "food" menu. Weinkarte - wine list.

However, if you ask for "the menu" you are likely to get one of the set meals with defined items. Most restaurants have one low cost "menu" or some way to choose only some of the courses of a fancier "menu." Some restaurants have several "menus" at different prices.

Personally, I always look first for the "menus" rather than taking the limited choices available with half-board....even though they may be the same meal, sometimes. ;-)

If you reserve with half board, you can usually go a la carte for extra cost.

Also, although I almost always try the hotel restaurant on my first night, often I will go elsewhere to eat on other days. Some hotels have very good kitchens, others have merely acceptable kitchens.

Luzern has a long tradition of making tourists happy, at all levels of luxury. So, you can find superb restaurants ( some quite expensive) or simple, low cost food. The train station restaurants in Luzern on the balcony were being rebuilt in June when I was there. They used to offer quite good food at different price levels; I ate there frequently. The best one was very good, with a good wine list. The cafe was good at moderate prices (for Switzerland.) ;-)

Don't know what they have now.

Slowpoke

<<"11 Dec Day trip to St Gallen/Appenzell. I managed tofind a generic 1-day ticket pass, but it costs CHF 73 evenwith Half FarePass! Hence I will forego Appenzell for St. Gallen. I heard theChocolaterie comes highly recommended and we could possibly haveafternoon teaat the café. I’ll also look up Rietberg since it comeshighly recommended from you.">>

I don't know the Chocolaterie.

I do know that you are interested in Swiss food.

The Weinstube zum Bäumli in St. Gall is an especially good choice for Swiss food in an authentic very old small Swiss restaurant. It is upstairs; what we call in the USA the second floor. In Europe, it is called the first floor. It is near the Bibliothek.

www.weinstube-baeumli.ch/

Slowpoke

<<"10 Dec Zurich. Thanks for the recommendations! I’llcheck out the suggested markets and old streets in Zurich. I loveexploring in old towns and little shops – I can never know what I’llfind and that is part of the excitement! ">>

Hi Jane- here is bit more detail on the recommendations for walking in the old town of Zürich.

In the attached map, the regions on the left (west) side of the river are full of interesting stores and restaurants. Since it is relatively close to the main station and the Bahnhofstrasse shopping street, it is well known for tourists.

Close by, at Paradeplatz on the Bahnhofstrasse is a well know Swiss restaurant, the Zeughauskeller.

www.zeughauskeller.ch/ en/home

The area on the other side, in the Niederdorf and Oberdorf, is less full of tourists. All of the areas around Neumarkt, a small plaza, are full of interesting shops and restaurants. I'd tend to approach Neumarkt from Niederdorfstrasse/Marktgasse along Rindermarkt, and then explore the streets to the south and east, including Rehgasschen, Spiegelgasse, Obere and Untere Zäune and Obmannamtgasse.

Slowpoke

<<"Thank you for the map – it is useful to gauge the distance.">>

It also shows all of the train and cable car routes. even some trails. Zoom in.

Slowpoke

Hi Slowpoke!

Wow thanks for the comprehensive responses! The train/cable timetable screenshots are especially useful! Thanks for the “talk-through” on how to read the timings, I didn’t realise I could see the mode of transport with it. I shall henceforth use the desktop version to plan for train times. The app version is probably useful for on-the-go and when there are plan changes.

Thanks for the recommendations for Lucerne! The Jesuit church looks really impressive and absolutely beautiful with the sunset! Which month did you visit the place? Also appreciate the links about Pilatus and Titlis! After researching about both, I find that Mt Titlis offers more non-skiing activities so we’ll likely make a trip there.

Thanks for the clarification on half boards! It sounds like we can also get to try Swiss food in restaurants so we’ll likely not go for half-boards at hotels. We’ll probably try our luck at the restaurants :) And definitely try your recommended restaurant at St Gallen, although I note that their webpage is non-English. I hope they do have an English menu! Manythanks for the extra recommendations for Zurich! I’ll research about them to see if I’d like to add those onto my list of to-dos.

PS: the map is amazing!!! It is superbly useful!!

Jane

Hi Jane-

The church in Luzern was taken at dawn, in June, in roughly 2006.

For information on churches in Luzern, stop at the tourist info office by track 1 in the main station. They are first rate.

It is rare to get such a clear shot.

If I like the posted card (menu) at a hotel, I usually eat there my first night. I have rarely been disappointed, but, indeed, also,have found individual restaurants of higher quality, with greater selection and higher prices, or cheaper restaurants.

I am not cautioning you to avoid hotel restaurants or half-board. The very best and most deluxe restaurants in Luzern are usually at the very expensive Palace Hotel, for example.

I am saying that you may save some money with half board, but your choices may be restricted to a few choices.

In that case, if you don't like what you see you can order a la carte at most places, for extra cost. The one exception I have run into is some hotels in the resort areas that cater to travelers who come back year after year. Many are from England. In those cases, the meals are at a set time, and everyone gets the same thing. That tends to be the mode with some bargsin full board places. However, nothing is absolute. My answer is to check the meal arrangements by internet ahead of time, or when I check in.

It appears that you have all you need to refine your planning. You found the full timetable, and are using a good map.

I don't know if you are a fan of maps. If you are, the official SwissTopo website is worth exploring. Very powerful, with lots of geographic information.

www.swisstopo.admin.ch /internet/swisstopo/en /home.html

map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=swisstopo&lang=e n&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo .pixelkarte-farbe&layers=ch.swisst opo.zeitreihen,ch.bfs. gebaeude_wohnungs_regi ster,ch.bafu.wrz-wildruhezonen_portal,c h.swisstopo.swisstlm3d -wanderwege,ch.swisstop o.swissalti3d-reliefschattierung&lay ers_visibility=false,f alse,false,true,false& layers_timestamp=18641 231,,,,&X=117695.00&Y= 499625.00&zoom=2

www.swisstopo.admin.ch /internet/swisstopo/en /home/products.html

The time table has a lot of stuff buried in the footnotes and fine print. It is worth poking around a bit.

Have fun planning, and let us know if you have more questions.

Slowpoke

Jane -

I added some comments about Zürich and some pictures in this new thread:

www.myswissalps.com/fo rum/topic/need-help-in-my-planning#cq6cUaDW9mqS6 v8AAFcRTQ

Slowpoke

Hello Jane! I'm a Singaporean too, and I'll be in Switzerland from 26 to 30 Nov with my partner (I'll be returning from Europe on 6 Dec). Would you happen to be keen on getting the Swiss Half Fare Card? Cause it's valid for 1 month continuously. We could share if you like! But if you're not interested that's fine too :)

Hi frmercury,

Rail passes are strictly personal. They hold the passenger name and passport number, so sharing is not possible.

Hi Slowpoke

Sorry for the late reply, been tied down with work lately. Ok sure will check out the link!

Jane