MySwissAlps.com includes Roger Sexton
Forum replies
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Hello billD
Once we get through customs and passport control
Be warned, this may not be a simple quick process. The new European Entry Exit System (‘EES’) is in force, and that could lead to long delays….
I was in Switerzerland back in the mid 70’s when I was stationed in Germany,
I infer from this that you are from North America, and that you are at least about 70. I am British aged 78. I have never driven (poor eyesight). I have been visiting Switzerland regularly ever since 1971.
Depending on when get out of the Zurich Airport I may change the plan and drive directly to Grindelwald. From what I can figure out, there’s not much of a difference in driving time from Zurich direct to Grindelwald vs via Furkapass. Looking for opinions.
Distance wise the two routes might be similar. However the Furka-Grimsel route will be over narrow constantly twisting mountain roads. By contrast using the Swiss Autobahn A1 as far as Bern, and then turning south towards Interlaken and then Grindelwald will be relatively flat and relatively straight.
it’ll be tough to get Zermatt for sunrise with staying in Tasch.
The first regular train from Täsch to Zermatt is at 05 55. But the Swiss Electronic timetable http://www.sbb.ch/en is telling me that on 19, 20, 21, 26, 27, 28 June there is an hourly all-night service. Trains leave Täsch on the hour and take twelve minutes to do the journey.
Another possible car trip from Täsch
It is about an hour’s drive along twisting mountain roads to Saas Fee. There you have to park on the edge of the village. Continue southwards on foot past the bus station to the ‘PanoromaBruck’. It will take about 15 minutes. From this bridge there are spectacular views of mountains and glaciers in every direction….
If we are happy with the experience – then we might plan another less adventurous trip in the fall season I
To avoid the crowds but to still have a reasonably good amount of daylight, go late September or early October. In the last ten years I have had several successful Autumn holidays in the Alps.
But next time DO NOT RENT A CAR. Invest in Swiss Travel Passes. The STP gives you the freedom of the world’s best public transport system. Everything is included except the lines which simply go up mountains. Consider basing yourselves in South-East Switzerland (Chur, Davos St Moritz.)
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-travel-pass/
The Dolomites in Italy are not that far.
I would disagree. Leave the Dolomites (and the rest of beautiful northern Italy) to another time. But in the Italian mountains, just as in Switzerland, let other people do the driving.
Best wishes for your upcoming trip.
Roger
Hello again Mickey
What you are suggesting in the section of your thread beginning with the words ‘Otherwise, we could visit Zurich on the 17th… ‘is clearly doable. But it is going to take a lot of LAST-MINUTE planning.
In particular you will need to get accommodation for the nights 17th and 18th.
You will also need to rethink the problem of which public transport passes you should invest in.
On this pass problem, I would now suggest that for maximum flexibility you INVEST in three day Swiss Travel Passes for the period 17th to 19th June (405 CHF first class per person).
Still also invest in Half Fare Cards and Berner Oberland Passes. Your BOPS can start from the day you go from Lucerne to Murren.
Accommodation on 17th and 18th
I am guessing that it will still be relatively easy to get accommodation in the Chur area or in the St Moritz area. May be morre difficult to get decent accommodation in or near smaller Tirano. I would suggest book two nights in St Moritz (or nearby Celerina, Samedan, Pontresina, Zuoz).
Procedure on 17th
‘Going through customs’ on 17th MAY be time and energy consuming because of the new European Entry Exit System (‘EES’). Once you are through the new processes travel from Zurich Airport to St Moritz changing at Zurich Hauptbahnhof and Chur. If you left Zurich Airport at 14 15 you would reach St Moritz at 17 55.
From Zurich to Chur sit on the left side of the train in the direction of travel. From Chur to St Moritz travel on the right hand side in the direction of travel. The famous curved Landwasser viaduct comes about ten minutes after Tiefencastel.
On the 18th have a leisurely round trip from St Moritz to Tirano and back. If your outward journey is early morning, you should avoid the crowds.
On the 19th Catch (say) the 08 47 RE7 from St Mortiz to Landquart via Klosters. At Landquart change to the 10 48 IC3 to Zurich Hauptbahnhof. From Zurich catch the 12 09 IR70 to Lucerne, arrive 12 51.
Best wishes
Roger
Hello again
Have a detailed map of Switzerland in front of you. Also have to hand a map of the Eastern Mediterranean.
I am assuming that you will be visiting Switzerland in mid-September after your retreat on a Greek island.
Getting from the Greek Island to Switzerland.
Fly. That will be a lot quicker and (probably) cheaper and much easier.
Ferry + Trains
Get a ferry (or ferries) to a port in south-east Italy, probably Brindisi or Bari.
Then take a fast ‘Frecciarossa’ train from Brindisi or Bari up the east side of Italy to Milan. Eight hours forty minutes from Brindisi, an hour less from Bari. Seat reservations will be needed.
From Milan catch the RE80 ‘TILO’ train which leaves Milano Centrale at 43 minutes past each hour. Get off at Lugano. The journey takes 75 minutes.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-guide/italy-switzerland/
Lugano is the first important town in Switzerland. But it will be expensive. Locarno (the eventual destination of the RE80) is likely to be cheaper.
https://www.myswissalps.com/town/lugano/
https://www.myswissalps.com/town/locarno/From Lugano and Bellinzona there are fast trains twice an hour to central Switzerland and Zurich. Takes about two hours to Zurich, a bit less to Lucerne. A change at Arth-Goldau may be necessary.
Long Train Journeys in Switzerland
The longest journey timewise is the super luxury (and therefore expensive) Glacier Express mentioned by Anna in her reply. It takes a bit over eight hours to go from St Moritz to Zermatt (two expensive mountain resorts).
The longest regular train journey distance wise is the IC1 service which runs hourly from St Gallen to Geneva, via Wil, Winterthur, Zurich, Bern, Fribourg and Lausanne. The journey is 367 kms (230 miles). It takes about four-and-a-half hours.
Another relatively long run is Lugano to Basel (IC21). The trains are hourly, but a change at Arth-Goldau may be required. The distance is 264 kms (165 miles). The journey takes about three hours.
Probably prefer to stay in economical places rather than most expensive high end hotels.
I have been hinting that if you are on a budget, some of the places I have named should be avoided. Also avoid the city of Lucerne in September.
I would suggest Brunnen (eastern end of Lake Lucerne) or Thun or Spiez (both major public transport hubs) in the Berner Oberland. (Interlaken and the mountain resorts in the Jungfrau region are likely to be more expensive.)
https://www.myswissalps.com/town/thun/
Public Transport Passes.
As I indicated in my previous reply, Switzerland has absolutely wonderful public transport. Above all, the various modes- trains buses, boats, urban streetcars, (and the Metro in Lausanne) are integrated into one system. And this integration extends to the tickets.
It is customary for travel advisers to talk of ‘Train Passes’, but in the context of Switzerland that is, strictly speaking, wrong. The three passes I am about to mention are all multi-modal
Swiss Travel Pass
The price is high, but if you want to see a lot of Switzerland in a few days then you must invest in a Swiss Travel Pass. It gives you the freedom of the world’s best public transport system. Only lines which simply ‘go up mountains’ are excluded, On those lines you (usually) get a discount.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-travel-pass/
(Note that on the Glacier Express and the Bernina Express you would still have to pay the high seat reservation charges. I would however stress that the lines traversed by these luxury express are also served by hourly regional trains which are, of course, free with the Swiss Travel Pass.)
Lucerne Travel Pass
If you stay at Brunnen (or anywhere else in the LAKE Lucerne area) and just want to explore central Switzerland, then this is very probably the pass for you. It covers the trains, boats and buses in the region, and does give FREE travel on pretty well all the lines in the region which just go up mountains.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/lucerne-travel-pass/
Berner Oberland Pass
If you stay in Thun, Spiez or any of the smaller villages on the shores of Lakes Thun and Brienz, and you just want to explore the Berner Oberland, then this is very probably the pass for you. It covers the trains, boats and buses in the region, and does give FREE travel on MOST of the lines in the region which just go up mountains. But be warned that you only get a 50% discount on the expensive Grindelwald-First cable car.
The Berner Oberland Pass does give free travel up the very high Schilthorn, but only a small discount on the VERY VERY expensive line to Jungfraujoch.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/berner-oberland-pass/
Getting Back to Canada.
There are certainly flights from Zurich. I am not sure if there are flights from Geneva.
Kind regards
Roger
Hello Flowto
I would unhesitatingly recommend mid/late September. In recent years I have taken several Autumn holidays in the Alps, and they have all been successful. Less crowded, but still usually good weather. All mountain lines will still be open, and all the lake boats will still be operating. Accommodation will be cheaper.
I will try and give you a full answer tomorrow on the transport issue. I think you have a misconception about the size of Switzerland. It is small.
One thing is certain. Public transport in Switzerland (in all its forms) is extremely good. Probably the best in the world, All important routes have at least an hourly service, and are timed to interconnect. And those hourly services run 365-days-a-year.
Pending my full answer which I hope will be tomorrow, study a map of Switzerland. Note that Lucerne (Luzerne in German) is bang in the middle. Geneva is at the far western end. Zurich is 35 miles (55 kilometres) north of Lucerne.
Kind regards
RogerHello G Witt
Welcome back to MySwiss Alps!
Thank you for your trip report dated December 17th 2017(!).
In that trip report you wrote
The Swiss train system is amazing (efficient, timely, clean) and we are glad we acted on the recommendation to purchase the 4 day Swiss travel pass. We even used the luggage forward service provided by Swiss Train to forward two large suitcases from Basel to Zurich so we could travel lightly with two backpacks during our four days and then pick up our luggage at the airport when we departed.
My basic advice would be to do what you did nine years ago, but IN REVERSE.
Invest in four-day Swiss Travel Passes (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-travel-pass/) for the period 21-24 October.
Stop the night of the 24th in Basel, thus avoiding paying Zurich to Basel fares on 25th.
On arrival at Zurich Airport go to the Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) offices, and forward your heavy luggage to Basel SBB station. As nine years ago, travel in Switzerland lightly with just backpacks.
As was the case nine years ago, your STPs will give you free travel up to Mürren and Wengen. (Note that there is a new very steep cable car which goes direct from Stechelberg to Mürren. The old cable cars via Gimmelwald are still operating.)
As was the case nine years ago the STP gives you 50% discount on the cable cars Mürren to Schilthorn and Wengen to Männlichen. (There is a 25% discount on the cog-wheel train Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg.) All three of these lines will be operating during your stay.
There are now through trains every two hours form Zurich Airport to Interlaken. But note that in your chosen week the line between the two Interlaken stations is closed for engineering work.
There will no doubt be replacement buses between Interlaken West and Ost, However, I suggest that in travelling both to and from Lauterbrunnen you go via Lucerne. There are through trains Zurich Airport to Lucerne (called Luzern in German). Lucerne to Interlaken is VERY scenic.
There are frequent trains Lucerne to Basel. If on the 24th your plan is to explore Zurich, then travel Lauterbrunnen to Interlaken Ost, Interlaken Ost to Lucerne, Lucerne to Zurich Hauptbahnhof (very close to the central area) and finally Zurich to Basel. (Fast trains run twice an hour, and take just under an hour.)
There are left-luggage lockers at all main Swiss stations.
Best wishes
Roger
Hello again
Luggage services is not my expertise. I am only answering your thread only because your situation is URGENT and no-one else has answered your thread.
A section of the MySwissAlps website says
Transport services for international rail journeys.There are luggage services for train journeys from Germany and Austria to Switzerland and vice versa.
I would contact Wengen station first thing tomorrow morning and enquire whether your heavier luggage can be sent from Wengen to Offenburg. (Gengenbach has a small station. I think it unlikely that it will have facilities to deal with luggage.)Best wishes
Roger
in reply to: 2-day Bernina railway itinerary from Tirano
Hello again mashedpotato
If you are still keen on a two-day trip to beautiful Graubunden canton, you should carefully study Subrata’s advice, both as to ticketing and as to places to go and see.
In particular Subrata says I don’t see any additional value in paying so much extra on seat reservations for travelling by the Bernina Express. I totally agree.
Kind regards
Roger
in reply to: 2-day Bernina railway itinerary from Tirano
Hello
I was going to suggest a plan very similar to Anna’s. But I then realised, ‘This trip is going to be VERY expensive.’If you use ordinary trains, the adult single fare Tirano to Chur is 66 CHF. If you use the Bernina Express there is in addition a hefty reservation fee of (I think) 35 CHF per person.
(How old are the children? In Switzerland, under sixes go free. But on luxury trains like the Bernina Express you do have to pay a reservation fee for an under-six.)
I would suggest you revert to your one day trip plan, and travel no further than Tirano to Pontresina, using ordinary trains, not the Bernina Express. The adult single fare is 30 CHF, and you are allowed to break your journey at intermediate stops such as Alp Grum. Alp Grum is a spectacular viewing point just south of the summit of the line at Bernina Hospizio.)
For a more radical solution, omit the Bernina line from this year’s itinerary. Instead, in a year in the not too distant future, adopt the plan I set out in my thread #2796223 dated 12 April this year and entitled ‘The Bernina Line Problem’.
Best wishes for your planning.
Roger
in reply to: Need help with comparing Swiss rail passes
Hello Alisha
The FLEXIBILITY you get when you INVEST in a Public Transport Pass
There is one huge benefit of STPs and BOPs which never shows up in spread sheets.
If you buy point-to-point tickets you are committed to making the journey. You cannot change your mind once you have bought your ticket.
The beauty of a go anywhere ‘Rover’ ticket like the STP or BOP is that you can change your mind as to where you are going, even when in mid journey.
I was brought up in Hertfordshire, just north of London (England). When I was TEN my parents allowed me to go out travelling around the area on ‘Green Rover’ bus tickets. I often changed my mind as to where I was going, sometimes while sat on a bus!
Sixty-eight years later(!) I am still at it. Except that it will be a Swiss bus (or streetcar/tram, boat or train), and it will be a Swiss Travel Pass that I have in my Rucksack
Best wishes
Roger
in reply to: Is it worth taking the Chocolate Train excursion?
Further to Anna’s reply I would stress that the Swiss Travel Pass is a PUBLIC TRANSPORT pass, valid on buses, boats and tram/streetcars, as well as trains. It follows that the regular scheduled bus which runs hourly from Broc to Gruyeres is free with the STP.
Kind regards
RogerHello again Shiv
I would strongly agree with Anna’s second paragraph in her reply 6.
Note that the Berner Oberland Pass is valid on all trains between Bern and Interlaken. But it is NOT valid on the local public transport in Bern itself.
The BOP IS valid on the slow and scenic RE7 trains from Bern to Lucerne via Langnau and Entlebuch. But it is NOT valid on the fast IR15 trains which take the much less scenic route via Zofingen.Kind regards
RogerHello Shiv. It is perfectly possible to explore the whole of the Berner Oberland (including the Jungfrau region) from a base in Bern. I have (in effect) done so. Bern to Interlaken Ost takes under an hour.
You could get to Lauterbrunnen (and Murren) on your day one. Interlaken is not a traditional Swiss village. It is a product of nineteenth century tourism.
On day two there are from Bern through trains to Kandersteg. They leave Bern at 39 minutes past each hour, and take 61 minutes.
KInd regards
RogerHello LK
Further to Anna’s reply, I would stress that the only practical RAILWAY route from Brig to Domodossola is through the 12 mile (19 kms.) Simplon tunnel.
There is a Swiss postbus which runs twice a day over the Simplon Pass road. At the end end of September departures from Brig are at 10 20 and 12 50. The spectacular journey takes one hour and forty-two minutes.
Swiss public transport passes such as the Swiss Travel Pass (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-travel-pass/) and the Saver Day Pass (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/saver-day-pass/) are valid on this bus. (I have twice travelled on this route using a Swiss Travel Pass.) Train passes such as Interrail and Eurail are not valid.
Best wishes
RogerHello
For public transport times in Switzerland do not rely on Google maps. The fabulous journey planner SBB timetable (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel/train/timetable/) covers all modes of public transport. It covers the buses, boats, trams/streetcars, cable cars, funiculars … as well as trains.
Regards
RogerHello again Paula
If you invest in a Saver Day Pass (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/saver-day-pass/) you get on your chosen day the freedom of the world’s best public transport system. Put crudely, on the chosen day you can go anywhere in Switzerland at any time you like, from the crack of dawn (or earlier) until late at night…..
It follows that, subject to the need for a reservation on the Gotthard Panoramic Express, the answer to question one is ‘Yes’.
It also follows that you can ‘break your journey’ at any place you like. So you can certainly leave Wengen at 07 13 and have a sandwich/drink at Luzern around 10 00!
Best wishes
Roger
Hello again Phil
Firstly, I note that one of the MySwissAlps moderators has (overnight) added to my earlier reply ‘Stay the night in Zurich‘ before the sentence beginning ‘You really need…’ I would strongly agree with that suggestion.
Lucerne/Luzern you would have to leave at 06 35, Zug at 07 01, Thalwil (on Lake Zurich just outside the city) at 07 24. Schaffhausen (near the Rhinefalls) you would leave at 06 57, Neuhausen am Rheinfall at 07 00.
All times are as of this morning. On a working day you would be travelling in the middle of the morning ‘rush hour’.
I do sometimes stay at the Radisson Blu at Zurich Airport. The hotel is about a six minute walk from the both the check ins and the railway station.
Kind regards
RogerHello Phil
Welcome to MySwissAlps from a British man who has been regularly visiting Switzerland for 55 years.
We had been advised that we could comfortably take the high speed train the morning of, and make that flight.
Is this reasonable, or should we be looking to stay in Zurich the night before the flight?
Stay the night in Zurich. You really need to be at Zurich Airport by about 08 00, three hours before your flight is due to take off. That is to allow for possible delays on the way to the airport, at security, AND ESPECIALLY AT PASSPORT CONTROL now that the European Entry/Exit System ‘EES’ is in operation. (While Switzerland is not in the European Union it is party to the Schengen Agreement.)Note also that while Swiss trains are frequent and usually very punctual, they are not ‘high speed’. On the current Swiss timetable you could leave Lausanne at 05 40, change at Bern, (six minutes to change form the IR15 to the IC8) and get to Zurich Airport at 08 17. The first through train from Lausanne to Zurich Airport is at 06 17. It reaches Zurich Airport at 08 51.
(Note that if I were staying in Lausanne (or in the Vevey/Montreux area) I would fly out from Geneva Airport.)
Play Safe
Roger
Hello Riverrockstar.
Welcome to MySwissAlps
Wonderful that you are going to Leukerbad. It has a stunningly beautiful location! Almost as good as Saas Fee!
I have looked on http://www.sbb.ch/en to see if there are any left luggage facilities at Leuk train station. Disappointingly, there are not.
However, the search I did also threw up ‘Leukerbad Bus Terminal’. This is a modern building which combines the bus station with the tourist office. There are no luggage lockers, but there is a left luggage service open Mondays–Saturdays 8.30am–12 noon, 1.30pm–5.30pm; Sundays only from 8.30am–12 noon.
(How long are you staying in Sion? It is a fantastic base for excursions all over Valais canton.)
Best wishes
RogerHello Wop
As a footnote to Arno’s answer, I would add that there are also French high speed trains (TGVs) from Lausanne to Paris, and Geneva to Paris. Going via Basel is the quickest route from Lucerne to Paris. But you might find that via Lausanne or Geneva is cheaper. (There is an hourly through train ,the IR15, from Lucerne to Geneva via Lausanne.)
Best wishes
RogerHello again Julie
Thank you for your kind words.
This makes me wonder if a Swiss Travel Pass would be in order in case we have to drop down to the valleys?!?!?
If you look at the validity map for the Bernet Oberland Pass you will see that it covers a wide area. In Particular it will take you to BERN, a good option if (during your stay in Wengen) the weather forecast for a particular day is poor.
The BOP also covers the boats on lakes Thun and Brienz, and all the bus routes in the Berner Oberland.I would only think of getting a Swiss Travel Pass if you were contemplating several LONGER distance day excursions.. Like Appenzell to St Moritz, Wengen to Geneva, Wengen to Zermatt.
Best wishes
Roger
