MySwissAlps.com includes Roger Sexton
Forum replies
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You will find that all electronic journey planners, (not just the SBB one!) sometimes give you weird or even totally impractical options.
When planning trips (anywhere in Europe) I always consult a map before selecting my route. I will then (usually) follow the approach set out by Anna in her reply number three and by Arno in his second sentence. That is is to research each stage of the journey separately. That is what I anyway always had to do in the days before electronic timetables and journey planners! (Even today, I sometimes consult the paper European Rail Timetable.)
I also sometimes follow the approach Arno describes in his last two sentences. The key point is to carefully select your ‘via’ places. For that you need a map!
Kind regards
RogerHello again MickeyG
I will have to be brief. I myself am off to Switzerland tomorrow.
Half fare card and a BOP for 21-26th does seem to be the right solution.
- https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-half-fare-card/
- https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/berner-oberland-pass/
On 20th use the HFC for discounted tickets for your Zurich Airport to Lucerne journey.
On 21st use the BOP to take you from Lucerne to Interlaken Ost. Trains leave every hour at 06 minutes past the hour.
On 26th use the BOP from Interlaken Ost to Lucerne. Trains leave Interlaken every hour at four minutes past the hour. Use the HFC for discounted tickets Lucerne to Zurich.
First Class?
If I have understood your plans correctly, the only significant benefit would be when going from Lucerne to Interlaken, and then Interlaken to Lucerne.
I would suggest you do not buy first class. Just be on the platform at ten minutes to the hour, and be ready to board when the train comes in.Note that Zurich to Lucerne trains are long double-deck trains. There is usually free second class seats towards the front of the train. Again, be on the platform well before the scheduled departure.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-guide/zurich-lucerne/
Best wishes
RogerPs Bring plenty of sunscreen – there is a heatwave in Switzerland!
Hello again Cheryl
Preliminary Word of Warning
We will be arriving in Zurich from the US around 6:30 am on July 7
As you may well have heard, the new European Entry and Exit system (‘EES’) is now in force. There MAY be long delays at immigration.Bern or Lucerne for a few hours.
This is a very close call. I have been visiting Switzerland for 55 years. My three favourite cities are Bern, Lucerne and (the not relevant) Lausanne. Given the time constraints, I would on this occasion favour Bern. Two reasonsJourney Times
Zurich Airport to Lucerne is about 70 minutes; Zurich Airport to Bern about 80 minutes.
However, Lucerne to Interlaken Ost (change for Lauterbrunnen) is 110 minutes; Bern to Interlaken Ost is 55 minutes.Location of Attractions
At Lucerne, you will see the city’s biggest attraction, the wooden ‘Kappelbruck’ bridge, to your left as you leave the station. But the other attractions are in the old city, the other side of the river Reuss from the station. The Cathedral, the Lion Monument and the Glacier Gardens are about half a mile from the station.https://www.myswissalps.com/town/lucerne/
At Bern, the wonderful arcaded city centre streets (UNESCO World Heritage Site) starts about 200 yards from the station. The Bundeshaus, the Federal Parliament Building built on a promontory above the River Aare, is about a quarter of a mile form the station.
https://www.myswissalps.com/town/bern/
(I would suggest you make Lucerne a ‘rainy day’ excursion from Lauterbrunnen. Total journey time is just under two-and-a-half hours..)
Best wishes
RogerHello Traveling Gals
Which if any, of these places would be good in Dec?Lauterbrunnen, Engelberg, Grindelwald, Lucerne? I know I won’t see the flowery meadows I’m used to but don’t want to be fogged in with nothing open.
Get out a good map of Switzerland.
Of the four places you name, I would recommend Lucerne (called Luzern in German. Lucerne: https://www.myswissalps.com/town/lucerne/
The other three places you mention are mountain villages which will be busy preparing for the upcoming ski season. A lot of things will be closed, although some of the mountain lines will be operating.
As you will see from the map Lucerne is bang in the centre of the country, with direct railway lines coming in from all directions. There are frequent through trains to both Basel and Zurich. There are also through trains to Geneva via Bern and Lausanne, to Interlaken, to St Gallen via Rapperswil, and the ‘Treno Gottardo’ to Locarno via the old 1882 mountain route through Airolo.
You will see from the map that Lucerne is at the west end of a big lake known in English as Lake Lucerne. The boats on this lake are an important part of local public transport, so they run 365 days a year. Some of the mountain lines WILL be operating, notably the lines from Vitznau to Rigi, Kriens to Pilatus, and Engelberg to Titlis. (Engelberg is about 45 minutes from Lucerne.)
Lucerne is a historic city, with museums open all year round. It is a commercial city with business and industry (and commuters both to and from neighbouring towns like Zug and Zurich). There is a world-class concert hall right next to the station. There will be a Christmas Market right by the lake.
If you want to use Lucerne as a base for exploring a large part of Switzerland, then consider investing in a Swiss Travel Pass valid on all forms of public transport in Switzerland except high mountain lines. If you want to just travel locally around Lucerne, invest in a Lucerne Travel Pass.
Best wishes
RogerHello Ozben
In the last 25 years I have taken a number of very enjoyable mid-winter holidays in Switzerland, most recently in December 2025. I base myself in Zurich, except on one occasion when I based myself in Bern. I go out on day excursions.
My practical experience is that it ‘gets dark’ between 4 30 and 5 pm. In planning my day trips, I therefore have an approximate target of trying to finish all the really scenic bits by 4 30 pm, or just after.
Very best wishes in planning your trip
Roger
in reply to: Rail pass options for Switzerland-Germany trip
Hello Dixies Family
If you do stick to the itinerary set out at the beginning of your thread the Global Eurail together with the Jungfrau Travel Pass is the only sensible answer to the ticketing problem.
If you were to go back to the original plan of flying back home from Munich, Global Eurail + JTP seems to still be the best answer.
However you say
. I know the ride from Jungfrau to Fussen will be long but we’re hoping for it to be as scenic as possible as well as give us time to relax after a whirlwind tour of Jungfrau. Any advice or potential pitfalls in this plan would be greatly appreciated.
The journey will take at least seven hours and will involve SIX changes of train. All six connections are ‘tight’.
I have just keyed in to http://www.sbb.ch electronic journey planner a pretend journey leaving Wengen at just after 08 30. I was given the following itinerary.
Wengen depart 08 41 arrive Lauterbrunnen 08 55
Lauterbrunnen depart 09 01 arrive Interlaken Ost 09 24
Under the subway to catch the 09 29 RE9 to Spiez, arrive on track 2 at 09 48.
Across the platform to track 3 for the 09 54 express train bound for Basel. You get off at Bern at 10 25.
Through the very busy subway at Bern, and catch the 10 31 IC1 bound for St Gallen, getting off this train at 11 28 at Zurich Hauptbahnhof on track 33.
Across the platform to track 34 and catch the 11 32 Eurocity train bound for Munchen/Munich. This train will be extremely busy so seat reservations are essential. You get off this train at Buchloe at 14 23.
Finally , catch a German regionalbahn (‘RB’) train at 14 31, arrive Fussen at 15 42.
For the moment I will leave matters there. It will help later discussions if you indicate the dates of your vacation. (I am praying those dates are NOT at the end of September!)
Kind regards
Roger
Hello billD
Once we get through customs and passport control
Be warned, this may not be a simple quick process. The new European Entry Exit System (‘EES’) is in force, and that could lead to long delays….
I was in Switerzerland back in the mid 70’s when I was stationed in Germany,
I infer from this that you are from North America, and that you are at least about 70. I am British aged 78. I have never driven (poor eyesight). I have been visiting Switzerland regularly ever since 1971.
Depending on when get out of the Zurich Airport I may change the plan and drive directly to Grindelwald. From what I can figure out, there’s not much of a difference in driving time from Zurich direct to Grindelwald vs via Furkapass. Looking for opinions.
Distance wise the two routes might be similar. However the Furka-Grimsel route will be over narrow constantly twisting mountain roads. By contrast using the Swiss Autobahn A1 as far as Bern, and then turning south towards Interlaken and then Grindelwald will be relatively flat and relatively straight.
it’ll be tough to get Zermatt for sunrise with staying in Tasch.
The first regular train from Täsch to Zermatt is at 05 55. But the Swiss Electronic timetable http://www.sbb.ch/en is telling me that on 19, 20, 21, 26, 27, 28 June there is an hourly all-night service. Trains leave Täsch on the hour and take twelve minutes to do the journey.
Another possible car trip from Täsch
It is about an hour’s drive along twisting mountain roads to Saas Fee. There you have to park on the edge of the village. Continue southwards on foot past the bus station to the ‘PanoromaBruck’. It will take about 15 minutes. From this bridge there are spectacular views of mountains and glaciers in every direction….
If we are happy with the experience – then we might plan another less adventurous trip in the fall season I
To avoid the crowds but to still have a reasonably good amount of daylight, go late September or early October. In the last ten years I have had several successful Autumn holidays in the Alps.
But next time DO NOT RENT A CAR. Invest in Swiss Travel Passes. The STP gives you the freedom of the world’s best public transport system. Everything is included except the lines which simply go up mountains. Consider basing yourselves in South-East Switzerland (Chur, Davos St Moritz.)
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-travel-pass/
The Dolomites in Italy are not that far.
I would disagree. Leave the Dolomites (and the rest of beautiful northern Italy) to another time. But in the Italian mountains, just as in Switzerland, let other people do the driving.
Best wishes for your upcoming trip.
Roger
Hello again Mickey
What you are suggesting in the section of your thread beginning with the words ‘Otherwise, we could visit Zurich on the 17th… ‘is clearly doable. But it is going to take a lot of LAST-MINUTE planning.
In particular you will need to get accommodation for the nights 17th and 18th.
You will also need to rethink the problem of which public transport passes you should invest in.
On this pass problem, I would now suggest that for maximum flexibility you INVEST in three day Swiss Travel Passes for the period 17th to 19th June (405 CHF first class per person).
Still also invest in Half Fare Cards and Berner Oberland Passes. Your BOPS can start from the day you go from Lucerne to Murren.
Accommodation on 17th and 18th
I am guessing that it will still be relatively easy to get accommodation in the Chur area or in the St Moritz area. May be morre difficult to get decent accommodation in or near smaller Tirano. I would suggest book two nights in St Moritz (or nearby Celerina, Samedan, Pontresina, Zuoz).
Procedure on 17th
‘Going through customs’ on 17th MAY be time and energy consuming because of the new European Entry Exit System (‘EES’). Once you are through the new processes travel from Zurich Airport to St Moritz changing at Zurich Hauptbahnhof and Chur. If you left Zurich Airport at 14 15 you would reach St Moritz at 17 55.
From Zurich to Chur sit on the left side of the train in the direction of travel. From Chur to St Moritz travel on the right hand side in the direction of travel. The famous curved Landwasser viaduct comes about ten minutes after Tiefencastel.
On the 18th have a leisurely round trip from St Moritz to Tirano and back. If your outward journey is early morning, you should avoid the crowds.
On the 19th Catch (say) the 08 47 RE7 from St Mortiz to Landquart via Klosters. At Landquart change to the 10 48 IC3 to Zurich Hauptbahnhof. From Zurich catch the 12 09 IR70 to Lucerne, arrive 12 51.
Best wishes
Roger
Hello again
Have a detailed map of Switzerland in front of you. Also have to hand a map of the Eastern Mediterranean.
I am assuming that you will be visiting Switzerland in mid-September after your retreat on a Greek island.
Getting from the Greek Island to Switzerland.
Fly. That will be a lot quicker and (probably) cheaper and much easier.
Ferry + Trains
Get a ferry (or ferries) to a port in south-east Italy, probably Brindisi or Bari.
Then take a fast ‘Frecciarossa’ train from Brindisi or Bari up the east side of Italy to Milan. Eight hours forty minutes from Brindisi, an hour less from Bari. Seat reservations will be needed.
From Milan catch the RE80 ‘TILO’ train which leaves Milano Centrale at 43 minutes past each hour. Get off at Lugano. The journey takes 75 minutes.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-guide/italy-switzerland/
Lugano is the first important town in Switzerland. But it will be expensive. Locarno (the eventual destination of the RE80) is likely to be cheaper.
https://www.myswissalps.com/town/lugano/
https://www.myswissalps.com/town/locarno/From Lugano and Bellinzona there are fast trains twice an hour to central Switzerland and Zurich. Takes about two hours to Zurich, a bit less to Lucerne. A change at Arth-Goldau may be necessary.
Long Train Journeys in Switzerland
The longest journey timewise is the super luxury (and therefore expensive) Glacier Express mentioned by Anna in her reply. It takes a bit over eight hours to go from St Moritz to Zermatt (two expensive mountain resorts).
The longest regular train journey distance wise is the IC1 service which runs hourly from St Gallen to Geneva, via Wil, Winterthur, Zurich, Bern, Fribourg and Lausanne. The journey is 367 kms (230 miles). It takes about four-and-a-half hours.
Another relatively long run is Lugano to Basel (IC21). The trains are hourly, but a change at Arth-Goldau may be required. The distance is 264 kms (165 miles). The journey takes about three hours.
Probably prefer to stay in economical places rather than most expensive high end hotels.
I have been hinting that if you are on a budget, some of the places I have named should be avoided. Also avoid the city of Lucerne in September.
I would suggest Brunnen (eastern end of Lake Lucerne) or Thun or Spiez (both major public transport hubs) in the Berner Oberland. (Interlaken and the mountain resorts in the Jungfrau region are likely to be more expensive.)
https://www.myswissalps.com/town/thun/
Public Transport Passes.
As I indicated in my previous reply, Switzerland has absolutely wonderful public transport. Above all, the various modes- trains buses, boats, urban streetcars, (and the Metro in Lausanne) are integrated into one system. And this integration extends to the tickets.
It is customary for travel advisers to talk of ‘Train Passes’, but in the context of Switzerland that is, strictly speaking, wrong. The three passes I am about to mention are all multi-modal
Swiss Travel Pass
The price is high, but if you want to see a lot of Switzerland in a few days then you must invest in a Swiss Travel Pass. It gives you the freedom of the world’s best public transport system. Only lines which simply ‘go up mountains’ are excluded, On those lines you (usually) get a discount.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-travel-pass/
(Note that on the Glacier Express and the Bernina Express you would still have to pay the high seat reservation charges. I would however stress that the lines traversed by these luxury express are also served by hourly regional trains which are, of course, free with the Swiss Travel Pass.)
Lucerne Travel Pass
If you stay at Brunnen (or anywhere else in the LAKE Lucerne area) and just want to explore central Switzerland, then this is very probably the pass for you. It covers the trains, boats and buses in the region, and does give FREE travel on pretty well all the lines in the region which just go up mountains.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/lucerne-travel-pass/
Berner Oberland Pass
If you stay in Thun, Spiez or any of the smaller villages on the shores of Lakes Thun and Brienz, and you just want to explore the Berner Oberland, then this is very probably the pass for you. It covers the trains, boats and buses in the region, and does give FREE travel on MOST of the lines in the region which just go up mountains. But be warned that you only get a 50% discount on the expensive Grindelwald-First cable car.
The Berner Oberland Pass does give free travel up the very high Schilthorn, but only a small discount on the VERY VERY expensive line to Jungfraujoch.
https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/berner-oberland-pass/
Getting Back to Canada.
There are certainly flights from Zurich. I am not sure if there are flights from Geneva.
Kind regards
Roger
Hello Flowto
I would unhesitatingly recommend mid/late September. In recent years I have taken several Autumn holidays in the Alps, and they have all been successful. Less crowded, but still usually good weather. All mountain lines will still be open, and all the lake boats will still be operating. Accommodation will be cheaper.
I will try and give you a full answer tomorrow on the transport issue. I think you have a misconception about the size of Switzerland. It is small.
One thing is certain. Public transport in Switzerland (in all its forms) is extremely good. Probably the best in the world, All important routes have at least an hourly service, and are timed to interconnect. And those hourly services run 365-days-a-year.
Pending my full answer which I hope will be tomorrow, study a map of Switzerland. Note that Lucerne (Luzerne in German) is bang in the middle. Geneva is at the far western end. Zurich is 35 miles (55 kilometres) north of Lucerne.
Kind regards
RogerHello G Witt
Welcome back to MySwiss Alps!
Thank you for your trip report dated December 17th 2017(!).
In that trip report you wrote
The Swiss train system is amazing (efficient, timely, clean) and we are glad we acted on the recommendation to purchase the 4 day Swiss travel pass. We even used the luggage forward service provided by Swiss Train to forward two large suitcases from Basel to Zurich so we could travel lightly with two backpacks during our four days and then pick up our luggage at the airport when we departed.
My basic advice would be to do what you did nine years ago, but IN REVERSE.
Invest in four-day Swiss Travel Passes (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-travel-pass/) for the period 21-24 October.
Stop the night of the 24th in Basel, thus avoiding paying Zurich to Basel fares on 25th.
On arrival at Zurich Airport go to the Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) offices, and forward your heavy luggage to Basel SBB station. As nine years ago, travel in Switzerland lightly with just backpacks.
As was the case nine years ago, your STPs will give you free travel up to Mürren and Wengen. (Note that there is a new very steep cable car which goes direct from Stechelberg to Mürren. The old cable cars via Gimmelwald are still operating.)
As was the case nine years ago the STP gives you 50% discount on the cable cars Mürren to Schilthorn and Wengen to Männlichen. (There is a 25% discount on the cog-wheel train Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg.) All three of these lines will be operating during your stay.
There are now through trains every two hours form Zurich Airport to Interlaken. But note that in your chosen week the line between the two Interlaken stations is closed for engineering work.
There will no doubt be replacement buses between Interlaken West and Ost, However, I suggest that in travelling both to and from Lauterbrunnen you go via Lucerne. There are through trains Zurich Airport to Lucerne (called Luzern in German). Lucerne to Interlaken is VERY scenic.
There are frequent trains Lucerne to Basel. If on the 24th your plan is to explore Zurich, then travel Lauterbrunnen to Interlaken Ost, Interlaken Ost to Lucerne, Lucerne to Zurich Hauptbahnhof (very close to the central area) and finally Zurich to Basel. (Fast trains run twice an hour, and take just under an hour.)
There are left-luggage lockers at all main Swiss stations.
Best wishes
Roger
Hello again
Luggage services is not my expertise. I am only answering your thread only because your situation is URGENT and no-one else has answered your thread.
A section of the MySwissAlps website says
Transport services for international rail journeys.There are luggage services for train journeys from Germany and Austria to Switzerland and vice versa.
I would contact Wengen station first thing tomorrow morning and enquire whether your heavier luggage can be sent from Wengen to Offenburg. (Gengenbach has a small station. I think it unlikely that it will have facilities to deal with luggage.)Best wishes
Roger
in reply to: 2-day Bernina railway itinerary from Tirano
Hello again mashedpotato
If you are still keen on a two-day trip to beautiful Graubunden canton, you should carefully study Subrata’s advice, both as to ticketing and as to places to go and see.
In particular Subrata says I don’t see any additional value in paying so much extra on seat reservations for travelling by the Bernina Express. I totally agree.
Kind regards
Roger
in reply to: 2-day Bernina railway itinerary from Tirano
Hello
I was going to suggest a plan very similar to Anna’s. But I then realised, ‘This trip is going to be VERY expensive.’If you use ordinary trains, the adult single fare Tirano to Chur is 66 CHF. If you use the Bernina Express there is in addition a hefty reservation fee of (I think) 35 CHF per person.
(How old are the children? In Switzerland, under sixes go free. But on luxury trains like the Bernina Express you do have to pay a reservation fee for an under-six.)
I would suggest you revert to your one day trip plan, and travel no further than Tirano to Pontresina, using ordinary trains, not the Bernina Express. The adult single fare is 30 CHF, and you are allowed to break your journey at intermediate stops such as Alp Grum. Alp Grum is a spectacular viewing point just south of the summit of the line at Bernina Hospizio.)
For a more radical solution, omit the Bernina line from this year’s itinerary. Instead, in a year in the not too distant future, adopt the plan I set out in my thread #2796223 dated 12 April this year and entitled ‘The Bernina Line Problem’.
Best wishes for your planning.
Roger
in reply to: Need help with comparing Swiss rail passes
Hello Alisha
The FLEXIBILITY you get when you INVEST in a Public Transport Pass
There is one huge benefit of STPs and BOPs which never shows up in spread sheets.
If you buy point-to-point tickets you are committed to making the journey. You cannot change your mind once you have bought your ticket.
The beauty of a go anywhere ‘Rover’ ticket like the STP or BOP is that you can change your mind as to where you are going, even when in mid journey.
I was brought up in Hertfordshire, just north of London (England). When I was TEN my parents allowed me to go out travelling around the area on ‘Green Rover’ bus tickets. I often changed my mind as to where I was going, sometimes while sat on a bus!
Sixty-eight years later(!) I am still at it. Except that it will be a Swiss bus (or streetcar/tram, boat or train), and it will be a Swiss Travel Pass that I have in my Rucksack
Best wishes
Roger
in reply to: Is it worth taking the Chocolate Train excursion?
Further to Anna’s reply I would stress that the Swiss Travel Pass is a PUBLIC TRANSPORT pass, valid on buses, boats and tram/streetcars, as well as trains. It follows that the regular scheduled bus which runs hourly from Broc to Gruyeres is free with the STP.
Kind regards
RogerHello again Shiv
I would strongly agree with Anna’s second paragraph in her reply 6.
Note that the Berner Oberland Pass is valid on all trains between Bern and Interlaken. But it is NOT valid on the local public transport in Bern itself.
The BOP IS valid on the slow and scenic RE7 trains from Bern to Lucerne via Langnau and Entlebuch. But it is NOT valid on the fast IR15 trains which take the much less scenic route via Zofingen.Kind regards
RogerHello Shiv. It is perfectly possible to explore the whole of the Berner Oberland (including the Jungfrau region) from a base in Bern. I have (in effect) done so. Bern to Interlaken Ost takes under an hour.
You could get to Lauterbrunnen (and Murren) on your day one. Interlaken is not a traditional Swiss village. It is a product of nineteenth century tourism.
On day two there are from Bern through trains to Kandersteg. They leave Bern at 39 minutes past each hour, and take 61 minutes.
KInd regards
RogerHello LK
Further to Anna’s reply, I would stress that the only practical RAILWAY route from Brig to Domodossola is through the 12 mile (19 kms.) Simplon tunnel.
There is a Swiss postbus which runs twice a day over the Simplon Pass road. At the end end of September departures from Brig are at 10 20 and 12 50. The spectacular journey takes one hour and forty-two minutes.
Swiss public transport passes such as the Swiss Travel Pass (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/swiss-travel-pass/) and the Saver Day Pass (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel-ticket/saver-day-pass/) are valid on this bus. (I have twice travelled on this route using a Swiss Travel Pass.) Train passes such as Interrail and Eurail are not valid.
Best wishes
RogerHello
For public transport times in Switzerland do not rely on Google maps. The fabulous journey planner SBB timetable (https://www.myswissalps.com/travel/train/timetable/) covers all modes of public transport. It covers the buses, boats, trams/streetcars, cable cars, funiculars … as well as trains.
Regards
Roger
